Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
To those who think my view is underestimating humanity...
This is my greatest fear. That I have underestimated mankind. We may be capable of much greater evil than I anticipate. But a guy can hope can't he?
The vast majority of people learn little from the lessons of history... as evidenced by some of these responses.
What's so amazing about this anyway?
Scarcity begets poverty.
Poverty begets conflict.
It's a least as old as bacteria... we fight. We compete for resources.
Guns germs & steel.
I always find it funny, how much some of you object when I point out the potential for war in this situation. But not a word when Simmons's says we will be facing a similar situation to WWII.
Exactly what do you think he means?
This analogy extends not only to our fellow humans, but well beyond our myopic grasp of life. Many of the people here endlessly speculate on ways to continue our insane growth experiment at any cost. Which begs the question... Just what is man's greatest failure?
Ourselves, or our planet?
For most of us; we pampered elite, it is tempting to believe in civilized cooperation leading to a solution.
The truth is that we elite enjoy our prosperity at the expense of countless millions upon millions of our fellows we have seized our wealth from.
When the circus arrives in town, it's easy to become trapped by the notion that the fine fairground we see before us, is all there is. In reality though, it means that the circus just left some other town beyond the horizon.
When times are hard... table manors change.
So what do we do about it?
I have no idea...
That's why I'm here. To build awareness and contemplate the future & our role in it.
And the first step in awareness is the understanding of how we got here in the first place.
And where we are heading...
(And kudos to those of you with the metal to attempt to insult me personally in this thread. You're gonna need it I think)
But no amount of cute little comments & jabs at the messenger, change the evidence history presents...
Want to know when the majority of people cooperate?
When someone or something forces them to do so. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
I guess I'm still somewhat confused about your comments toward ecovillages, Aaron. Are you trying to discourage people from forming communities? Do you think individuals working alone will be more successful? Why do you hate ecovillagers so much? As one of the biggest boosters of intentional communities here on the board, and a big flaming eco-fairy, I'm really curious to know why you despise my type so much. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:21 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Ludi wrote:
I guess I'm still somewhat confused about your comments toward ecovillages, Aaron. Are you trying to discourage people from forming communities? Do you think individuals working alone will be more successful? Why do you hate ecovillagers so much? As one of the biggest boosters of intentional communities here on the board, and a big flaming eco-fairy, I'm really curious to know why you despise my type so much.
Quite the opposite...
I'm not the "reapin" kind myself. And all my reaping posts & blogs are meant to make folks consider not only the relative security of their choices, but also to understand the "bigger picture".
What's the bigger picture you may ask?
Given the dire position mankind faces as conventional oil begins it's decline, there are more important things to consider than our own personal safety and life.
This is about our species itself... not our extinction necessarily... but where we go from here & what sort of legacy we pass to future generations.
It may surprise some of you to learn that I do support oil alternative lifestyles, as well as the promises of hard science to come.
But I also believe that we may never reach this fabled "promised land" of sustainable living if we fail the test of conflict, which I believe will engulf our planet as things get tight.
As you noted... there is no shortage of influential, ignorant attitudes among us. Same as always...
Look around you.
People, groups, companies & governments take by force, what they desire. We compete for mates, jobs, status, position, influence... power. And we do it at every level of our society from cradle to grave.
Even our cooperation is for advantage.
We fight terrible conflicts today, which many consider to be our time of greatest relative wealth as a people.
What do you think is going to happen as scarcity sweeps the planet?
Ovaltine? _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
"What logic is there in GWB saying "The terrorists hate us because of our freedoms.", and then proceeding to eliminate the freedoms that the terrorists "hate us" for? Seems like nothing but capitulation to the globalist agenda to me."
Right up there with "The American way of life is not negotiable!"
whoo
I suppose black left-behinds in New Orleans are living the American way of life?
I gather that you can find this "way of life" alive and well and living in the heart of Harlem? South side of Chicago? Watts? East LA? The Navaho four corners? etc.
And who the hell is GWB to figure out exactly why a terrorist hates?
Freedoms?
To consume the lion's share of the world's resources? To suck up third world debt and kick two thirds of the population of the planet around?
And just how "free" are most Americans anyway?
I don't suppose terrorists even notice freedoms in other parts of the world. They haven't caught on to how "free" they are down there in New Zealand, or perhaps Luxembourg, or maybe even Nova Scotia...
I noticed what happened to the "freedom" of dissent last election. Talk about hating freedom.
I suspect, rhetorically or otherwise, that the real "freedom" of this so-called American way of life resides somewhere in some gated community, having not a clue at all what is really happening across the nation.
Tsk tsk....the cost of gasoline is taking up another half percent of the petty cash piggie. What a shame.
(Where's a Mother Jones when we really need her?)
-or a Sojouner Truth, or a Joe Hill for that matter?
We have a lot of good people who would just love to re-build this country from the ground up, and do it right. But they can't. They'll be paying off their student loans until they're forty. Their reward then will be three and a half downsized Mcjobs...Starbucked forever!
The American way of greed is being preserved, all right.
GWB:
That "freedom" is hated a whole lot closer to home.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
skyemoor wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I didn't design the system folks... just making observations.
No, you were ranting and venting. Your outlook is severely doomish, and you should probably be on meds. No joke.
No, that is a joke, and a funny one at that. Again, we add more bullshit to an already out-of-control system to "solve" the "problem".
If Aaron were, in fact, "mentally ill", it has been the medical profession's modus operandi to assume the problem rests solely with Aaron, the individual. This is a peculiar type of widespread blindness of the medical profession to the thousands of external factors in his environment that influence his behavior and perceptions. The "solution" is to medicate, to add something else to the system that itself promotes the problem, rather than truly address the issues that affect behavior and mood.
If someone is, in fact, "clinically depressed", that is not the problem. It is an artifact (otherwise known as a "symptom") of the system in which that person resides, said artifact which is fed by its environment, which in turns feeds the environment. Addressing the issue of "depression", without also addressing the environments which feed it and are fed by it, is as much an exercise in folly as is modern economic theory.
Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Posts: 1104 Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Is something really big going to happen? Should we all be afraid? As a child of the nuclear age, with air raid sirens and duck-and-cover drills, climbing under my desk, I'd say that the fearful here are lacking in context.
Is gas getting more expensive? You bet. You poor kids. Sorry. Just the way it goes.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb, in "Fooled by Randomness: The hidden role of change in life and in the markets" says it quite well: people these days, particularly with the internet, are inundating themselves with useless information. I mean really. We've got Aaron trying to be a writer over at his blog blathering about neo-darwinism. If Kunslter is a second rate thinker--he is--what does that make the depletion blogspot? Third rate? Fourth.
This is my non-contribution for this week/month: everyone get the Fark away from your computers. And this comes from someone who has been on the internet longer than all of you. Seriously. I mentioned before. My first employer built and ran the original internet (ARPANET). I've been munging around the internet longer than most of you. And my advice: get away from it. Go do something real. Remember, a large number of postings here, and at other places, are by the people who have no lives. And probably not too much income. So they're using this as a filler. Filling the empty places. Communing.
Peak oil is real. But most of the blather of the second and third rate thinkers who are praised on this site isn't real. Go outside into your community. Do something.
Sorry for being so snide here. But someone has to. You guys are just so farking pathetic sometimes.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
JustinFrankl wrote:
If Aaron were, in fact, "mentally ill", it has been the medical profession's modus operandi to assume the problem rests solely with Aaron, the individual. This is a peculiar type of widespread blindness of the medical profession to the thousands of external factors in his environment that influence his behavior and perceptions. The "solution" is to medicate, to add something else to the system that itself promotes the problem, rather than truly address the issues that affect behavior and mood.
If someone is, in fact, "clinically depressed", that is not the problem. It is an artifact (otherwise known as a "symptom") of the system in which that person resides, said artifact which is fed by its environment, which in turns feeds the environment. Addressing the issue of "depression", without also addressing the environments which feed it and are fed by it, is as much an exercise in folly as is modern economic theory.
JustinFrankl you have just shown that you to have a fantastic understanding of what mental heath services are all about. They only accept bullsh****s and lobbyists of the current out-of-control system who excel in telling people they are the problem and shovling pills at them.
Joined: May 29, 2005 Posts: 775 Location: Schweinland-Pfalz
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:08 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
trespam wrote:
Is something really big going to happen? Should we all be afraid? As a child of the nuclear age, with air raid sirens and duck-and-cover drills, climbing under my desk, I'd say that the fearful here are lacking in context.
Is gas getting more expensive? You bet. You poor kids. Sorry. Just the way it goes.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb, in "Fooled by Randomness: The hidden role of change in life and in the markets" says it quite well: people these days, particularly with the internet, are inundating themselves with useless information. I mean really. We've got Aaron trying to be a writer over at his blog blathering about neo-darwinism. If Kunslter is a second rate thinker--he is--what does that make the depletion blogspot? Third rate? Fourth.
This is my non-contribution for this week/month: everyone get the Fark away from your computers. And this comes from someone who has been on the internet longer than all of you. Seriously. I mentioned before. My first employer built and ran the original internet (ARPANET). I've been munging around the internet longer than most of you. And my advice: get away from it. Go do something real. Remember, a large number of postings here, and at other places, are by the people who have no lives. And probably not too much income. So they're using this as a filler. Filling the empty places. Communing.
Peak oil is real. But most of the blather of the second and third rate thinkers who are praised on this site isn't real. Go outside into your community. Do something.
Sorry for being so snide here. But someone has to. You guys are just so farking pathetic sometimes.
True!
I've said it many times on this board, and I'll say it again. The post PO world will not be one of the following:
1. A happy world where people live in small communities, helping eachother grow potatoes and play guitar at the camp fire while the sun is going down.
2. An apocalyptic world full of looting armies of zombies, killing everything that moves to get hold of your last can of beans.
What's waitng around the corner is a grey, dull world run by beaurocrats removing more and more of your freedom until they own you and your life. Call it fascism, communism or socialism if you want. It doesn't matter. Oppression will come fro the state and/or the corporations. They will make you a slave in order to protect you, the society and big business.
The governments and corporations will never allow that any of the two alternatives above come true. The politicians and the elite have far too much to lose in each scenario.
I'm actually more afraid of corrupt governments and corporations with unlimited power than gun-owning rednecks. _________________ Was soll das?
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
But Aaron, what do you want us to do about it? Besides agree that people can be rotten? Because I don't know how to react to your position. When you say:
Quote:
So take your soft, bunny rabbit, eco-bullshit ,tree hugging fantasy & shove it up your ass.
What does that mean? Yeah, so, people can be rotten. So, yeah. There ya go. Yep-a-doo. Yep, got it.
So now what? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
trespam wrote:
Is something really big going to happen? Should we all be afraid? As a child of the nuclear age, with air raid sirens and duck-and-cover drills, climbing under my desk, I'd say that the fearful here are lacking in context.
Or perhaps the context is not lacking, but rather the understanding of that fear is lacking.
As a child of the 50s, I'm guessing, you lived within an environment of fear that was well-known and widely understood: there is a risk of nuclear war, it is understandable as a singular threat, and the whole world is at risk.
This context of fear is distinctly different: we, the Peak Oilers, are apparently the only ones who know that "civilization" (and thus our ability to survive) is at risk, and we are the only ones trying to do something about it, while the other 99.9% of the planet is going to get caught in a shitstorm that will undoubtedly complicate everyone's ability to survive. The problems here are multiple, inter-connected, and compounding: resource depletion, inflation, unemployment, food shortages, resource wars, systemic collapse. While this is not an easy sequence of events for Joe Sixpack to understand, we easily understand Joe Sixpack's likely possible reactions: panic, hoarding, mobbing, and rioting.
Quote:
Is gas getting more expensive? You bet. You poor kids. Sorry. Just the way it goes.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb, in "Fooled by Randomness: The hidden role of change in life and in the markets" says it quite well: people these days, particularly with the internet, are inundating themselves with useless information. I mean really. We've got Aaron trying to be a writer over at his blog blathering about neo-darwinism. If Kunslter is a second rate thinker--he is--what does that make the depletion blogspot? Third rate? Fourth.
That you disagree with Aaron's "neo-darwinism" indicates that you are capable of critique, analysis, and complex thought, which will serve you well in the future. Aaron's ideas don't work for you, and as well they shouldn't, as no one singular set of ideas works for everyone. Making the blanket statement of it being "second-rate thinking", thus attempting to push people away from these ideas, in effect you are also pushing a one-size-fits-all solution.
One obvious benefit about Aaron's blog and Kunstler's writings are that they get people thinking along different and diverse lines. From a stochastic perspective, given that the environments people encounter during a possible crash are likely to be extremely diverse, survivability of society or of the human species will best be met by a diversity of ideas.
If you have already covered this in another thread, I apologize, but perhaps you can share some points about what, exactly, is "second rate" about Kunstler.
Quote:
This is my non-contribution for this week/month: everyone get the Fark away from your computers. And this comes from someone who has been on the internet longer than all of you. Seriously. I mentioned before. My first employer built and ran the original internet (ARPANET). I've been munging around the internet longer than most of you. And my advice: get away from it. Go do something real.
Actively thinking and responding to the written word is one step more "real" than, say, passively reading a book. But I do support the position that people are probably better off spending less time in front of any video screen.
Quote:
Remember, a large number of postings here, and at other places, are by the people who have no lives. And probably not too much income. So they're using this as a filler. Filling the empty places. Communing.
"No lives" and "not too much income" are unfair critiques and judgments, implying that doing something more or having something more is part of the solution. Wrong. "More" has always been part of the problem.
Quote:
Peak oil is real. But most of the blather of the second and third rate thinkers who are praised on this site isn't real. Go outside into your community. Do something.
I would agree that doing something else in your local community would likely be beneficial, but that doing without thinking will lead to more problems than thinking without doing.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Schweinshaxe wrote:
The governments and corporations will never allow that any of the two alternatives above come true. The politicians and the elite have far too much to lose in each scenario.
If they don't have the necessary resources, energy, food, then their "power" will be no greater than yours. The alternatives that come to pass will be more a function of what people are able to to locally with effort than what people are able to do remotely through power and attempts at control.
Long-term, none can say what the world will be like. But we can say what the world cannot be like, if it doesn't have the resources necessary to support it.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Quote:
What does that mean? Yeah, so, people can be rotten. So, yeah. There ya go. Yep-a-doo. Yep, got it.
So now what?
I hear this from actvists frequently... The "Ok we get it... now what?" thing.
I'm sure I don't know.
But what I do know is that until we acknowledge just how serious this issue is, en mass, we won't get a chance for, "then what".
I'll venture briefly into psychic-land to characterize what some folks don't like about Kunstler, or myself for that matter.
Because it sounds harsh and politically incorrect. Offensive.
Kunstler may be speaking harshly for whatever his reasons are... maybe selling books, or lecture dates, or he's a CIA plant, or... whatever.
But I'm not selling anything, or writing for any other motive than compassion. Don't like what we write on depletion.blogspot.com?
Don't read it.
Different strokes...
Same for this forum... lots of differing opinions here.
Don't like what I write? Press that ignore button next to my post...
And please folks... the Zombie thing is a simplistic metaphor.
It means WAR.
In all it's wondrous versions. Terror attacks & suicide bombings, invading sovereign nations, torture & assassination.
Even the dreaded "N" word.
Finally I'll add that it's threads loike this one that I find most valuable.
Who knows? Perhaps one of you will point out something which merits hope & closer inspection... even for me. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
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