Joined: Jul 12, 2005 Posts: 249 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
SinisterBlueCat wrote:
I mean, if 85 to 90% of the world's human inhabitants are doomed to die
Let me give you a quick lesson in statistics. This might be a little bit of a shock though....
It is not 85% to 90% of the world´s human inhabitants that are ´doomed´ to die...
History has taught us that, without one single exception, a shocking 100% of the world´s human inhabitants will eventually die.
But for the more optimistical part: in the history of mankind, not one single human inhabitant has died of a concept known as Peakoil
Most of the people on this forum will probably die of heart diseases, cancer, strokes, chronic lower respitory diseases, diabetes, alzheimers disease or accidents.
But hey, don´t let me be the one keeping you from preparing for peakoil ( I for one am more interested in keeping myself healthy by not eating junk food, by not smoking and not drinking too much alcohol, but that`s just me...) _________________ "In the U.S., fears are so exaggerated and out of control that anxiety is the number-one mental health problem in the country.", Barry Glassner
Last edited by VinceG on Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
VinceG wrote:
But for the more optimistical part: in the history of mankind, not one single human inhabitant has died of a concept known as Peakoil
Most of the people on this forum will probably die of heart diseases, cancer, strokes, chronic lower respitory diseases, diabetes, alzheimers disease or accidents.
Totally correct. But diseases, accidents and war casualties may all increase with peak oil, and also medical treatment may be less available.
It's like saying that nobody has died of lack of money. You may die of starvation or exposure, but not of lack of money. But the fact is still that people with enough money seldom die of starvation or exposure.
Joined: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 581 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
I enjoy listening to doomers screaming with fear and enjoy hearing about their futile preparations to save their precious skins.
I enjoy the ranting of fascists and wonder what sort of concentration camp guards they're all going to make one day.
I appreciate the wild-eyed millenarians babbling "I've seen a sign from the Lord! It'll be happening any day! Any day now I tell you!"
I get off on the dour eco-economists who can prove with graphs, slide-rules, spreadsheets and crystal balls beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that there's no hope for anyone ever and we might as well just blow our brains out.
But most of all I enjoy hearing from people who have positive ideas and plans as to how we're all going to get out of this mess together. _________________ Son of the Enlightenment
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12021 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
linlithgowoil wrote:
Where are your figures that back this statement up? No one knows how many people the earth can support, and i totally refute the idea that after peak oil we'll eseentially have the resources equivalent to the year 1700.
We actually have far fewer resources than we did in 1700. There are far fewer forests, much less topsoil, most minerals have been extracted except from deep deposits.
Quote:
I think we'll be pupming along at 80mbarrels a day for another good while yet and that we won't enter the final arc of decline until nearer 2025 or later.
2025? That doesn't seem very far off. The Hirsch report sez we need to begin mitigation 10-20 years before peak to have any meaningful result. So, are you planning to wait another ten years to begin mitigation? From what you've posted, it seems you aren't very interested in mitigation but instead plan to let someone else worry about it. Your attitude makes me more of a doomer than I would be otherwise. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
VinceG wrote:
SinisterBlueCat wrote:
I mean, if 85 to 90% of the world's human inhabitants are doomed to die
But for the more optimistical part: in the history of mankind, not one single human inhabitant has died of a concept known as Peakoil
Not quite correct. The concept of Peak Oil is a subset of the concept of resource depletion. I'll leave it to you to discover how many people have died from thirst (resource=water), hunger (resource=food), and the elements (resource=shelter).
For our way of life, for the overwhelming majority of people on this planet, oil is a necessary resource. It is not replaceable in the short term. Its depletion will not necessarily mean the end of the human species, but it will mean a reduction in the population.
My mental state is grim, with a chance of sporadic optimism.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
linlithgowoil wrote:
Where are your figures that back this statement up? No one knows how many people the earth can support
I know, for a fact, that the number of people the planet can support is limited. In other words, it is finite. In other words, we cannot support an infiinite number of people on this planet. In other words, perpetual growth is impossible. In other words, there will be a mechanism that stops us from growing.
That your posts fail to recognize this is probably why I have you on Ignore.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Your mental state
[quote="Phebagirl" They are reality tv watching, cell phone yacking, totally clueless, lets go shopping, economists say everything will be fine, sheeple.
They are McMansions buying, SUV driving, debt ridden, clueless idiots.
They are wasteful, shamefully wasteful, Swiffer wet mop wasteful scum. They mock our only sensible president as the "cardigan doctrine" president.
They are cynical, smart ass sarcastic morons., and I wash my hands of them.
M[/quote]
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6150 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Your mental state
Phebagirl wrote:
Good Day From Pheba From the Farm:
My mental state?
Oh goodness. How do I describe this.
I have Lupus. A person with lupus is suppossed to avoid stress.
I usually do a pretty good job of keeping lupus at bay, and staying cool.
That being said, I have what I can only describe as a constant low level hum in my subconscious. Even when I am not aware of peak oil, I am aware.
I try to remove it by living my life, enjoying myself, coping.
The hum is there, low level, existant, all around me.
I see gas prices, the hum rises in pitch. I work at the food bank, and see people begging not only for food, but for a bit of "gas money", the pitch rises. I see cues and hints all around me, and the pitch rises yet again.
As some of you may know, I was going to teach a class on oil at our local vo-tech center.
I found out yesterday that the class was cancelled due to lack of interest.
Sorry folks, but they are sheeple. They are reality tv watching, cell phone yacking, totally clueless, lets go shopping, economists say everything will be fine, sheeple.
They are McMansions buying, SUV driving, debt ridden, clueless idiots.
They are wasteful, shamefully wasteful, Swiffer wet mop wasteful scum. They mock our only sensible president as the "cardigan doctrine" president.
They are cynical, smart ass sarcastic morons., and I wash my hands of them.
My husband and I have now decided to prepare, hunker down, and do the best we can.
Disrespect? Respect is not a gift, respect is a reward.
These fools don't deserve a reward. They deserve what is coming to them.
I attended a sustainability fair on Saturday and set up a peak oil booth.
The response to peak oil was good but hubby and I were preaching to the choir.
There were several biodiesel vehicles and two electric cars that looked like golf carts.
The folks involved were so egocentric that they could not make a connection as to how everybody else could afford the vehicles, or find the fuel.
The EROEI formula did not seem to make any sense to them and they blew it off.
They waxed eloquent on ethanol and biodiesel.
The only person with any sense was the key note speaker.
A Mr. Murphy. He spoke about conservation.
My mental state. I am frustrated, and somewhat concerned, but have had to stop worrying because it causes lupus flares.
I am preparing by reducing electricity use,
learning to store and rotate large amounts of food. (I buy bulk from a co-op, and we raise a lot of our own food).
Hubby and I are going to be attending a bio-intensive gardening workshop.
I have reduced my medication needs to just one prescription, and a lot of natural stuff.
I feel better on the natural stuff.
I cook all of my food from scratch, and have little reliance on ready to cook.
We do not eat out very often.
I play Nintendo.
Yep, I'm 50, and I love Zelda and Metroid.
Pheba
One of the hardest things for me to give up was my dryer. I love fluffy dry laundry. But, after hubby put up a wonderful set of clotheslines I find that for the most part I prefer air dried laundry. Our country air makes the sheets and towels smell divine. No fabric softener on the planet can match that smell. The only thing I prefer tossed in the dryer, my nightgowns. I find them to be a bit scratchy when line dried. But, I toss them just for a few minutes, then hang them up wet, and they dry soft.
My one energy weakness, hot water!. With lupus, nothing is better than a good hot soak. I take a lot of baths. We heat our hot water with wood, but I am still wasting resources.
A magnificent, poetic post, pheba. It moved me. Hang in there! _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6150 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Your mental state
SinisterBlueCat wrote:
I am curious. If everything that the doomers say is going to happen, does indeed come to pass... die-off, famine, pestilence and everything else...then were the "sheeple" not indeed better off?
I mean, if 85 to 90% of the world's human inhabitants are doomed to die, (six enter, one leaves) what are the chances of most people anyway? What is the point of having a farm and food stocks...most would not be able to hold on to them....you wake up one morning and your lovely garden is stripped bare.
So, if the doomers are right, then I say the "sheeple" are the lucky ones. If the end is nigh, then the only thing you can do by worrying about tomorrow is ruin today, right? So, by calling them "sheeple" are you making fun of them because you think they are stupid? or because you envy their freedom in not knowing?
I like to come to this board, but it is like drinking too much wine. A little is good, it makes you feel calm and nice...but beware of too much, it can make you sick.
The same basic question you're posing was asked in "The Matrix." It comes down to whether you want to take the red pill or the blue pill. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Your mental state
VinceG wrote:
But for the more optimistical part: in the history of mankind, not one single human inhabitant has died of a concept known as Peakoil
Until 1945 not one person had died from an atomic bomb, but then one day.....
Plenty of organisms have died from resource depletion. No biggy in terms of life on Earth. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Your mental state
I have been feeling rather frustrated lately. I founded my own board before finding this forum and after educating myself on Peak Oil, decided I could do something very specific about it. I decided I could prepare for the energy crunch, I'm widely skilled and experienced in a number of fields and have a background in the survival industry anyway. But I didn't want to live like a survivalist, having done that before, I found the lifestyle unattractive and self-defeating in the end.
So, I chose another course of action, community. Commonly known as eco-village. As my awareness of the problem grew, so did the root cause of the problem, how we got here. I learned as much as I can and am still learning. I posted ads for people interested in community and have singularily failed to attract anyone. What I've seen, I'll call "flash-in-the-pans", those that show great interest and last about two weeks (or less) in conversation and dialogue. We haven't gotten anywhere near serious discussions yet.
I'm of the opinion that most people refuse to help themselves. They are addicted to this present paradigm, which I believe is failing before our eyes. I'm not the type to sit around and watch it happen (so I'm not) and am going ahead with my plans and preparations. But it's going to be a lot harder doing this alone - and utterly unnecessary, because a lot of people are going to try and grab onto your shirttail when they realize you're heading in the direction that they need to go - or are already there - but it will be too late in many cases. And I'm going to resent that I think. That I've had to put in a huge amount of work just to get it all done, what I can do by myself if I have to, just to have a bunch of do-nothings try to take advantage of it all later.
I'm not a stingy person, not at all, in fact, I'm quite generous, but I don't understand the unwillingness of people to help themselves. This is the source of my frustration these days. There is time, if we act now, but there will not be time if we act much later. I know how long this will take, about a decade of hard sincere work, and I'm not convinced that we actually have a decade. We are being priced right out of the market on the goods and land and building supplies that we need (unless you go for a minimalist approach, which is something I'm thinking about).
I am also frustrated that if I can educate myself on the issues and what needs to be done, why can't large volumes of other people do that same? I strongly suspect because they simply don't care. They are married to the status-quo and refuse to consider that this civilization has a extremely short history - and an even shorter future.
I'm not looking foward to this future, because I know how hard and how painful and how difficult it will be. It certainly won't be pleasant, easy or fun.
I've become pessimistic and don't believe that there is much worth saving concerning the human race. I write about this a lot on my blog nowadays. I believe we have become a virus, an alien species to the life on this earth, destroying everything we touch and for what? So we can play Nintendo? It simply makes no sense to me. Ancient civilizations had it much better then we do and we could return to this if needed - if we don't totally screw things up between now and then - which we might.
I don't fear death, but it is the hardships that will make the suffering difficult to bear. Not my hardship, I've been through quite a lot in my life and am not particularly afraid of the future. But the hardships that I believe are in the offering for everyone else, people I care about and people who are even now, sitting back and watching me and thinking, "I'll just join up when it's time". I may very well not let you.
I've spent countless hours reading, writing and learning all I can, time which I could have spent making money to better prepare myself and my family. I don't feel any particular obligation to anyone outside of my family, but I still find myself trying to be a change-agent and affect how people perceive these problems, including peak oil, environment, culture, civilization, government and how we should live.
It really would be easier to just cash it all in, give it up and do my own thing and I've seriously considered it. But I don't beleive that such isolation is either healthy or sustaining to be honest. We are social creatures to some degree or another and to go it alone would probably ensure your failure. So I keep plugging away, looking for serious people who aren't playing Internet games. Haven't found any so far.
This board is a good resource for me for information and such like. I don't know yet if there any serious people here. I've been advertising over on my own forum for participants, but I'm not aware of a forum here to do this. _________________ SurvivalAcres Blog
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Your mental state
From cradle to grave we are promised that life will only get better if (a) we work hard (b) we buy product X.
We don't like the idea that things are going to get worse. We are surprisingly irrational. If you have lived the western life and have a job and have your mortgage, the idea that that could all unwind is so horrible that you blank it out. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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