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dolem98
Coal
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:40 am Post subject: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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A unique system that can produce Hydrogen inside a car using common metals such as Magnesium and Aluminum was developed by an Israeli company. The system solves all of the obstacles associated with the manufacturing, transporting and storing of hydrogen to be used in cars. When it becomes commercial in a few years time, the system will be incorporated into cars that will cost about the same as existing conventional cars to run, and will be completely emission free.
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http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/231005_tech.htm |
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emersonbiggins
Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 5191
Location: Dallas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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Schematic concept of Process (JPEG)
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Last edited by emersonbiggins on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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brobak
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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| Where's the infrastructure to get the "metal fuel" to the car? Not like it flows through pipes? Also, its not like this stuff exists in abundance in a pure form. It has to be smelted and purified, yadda yadda. Non starter. |
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JayBee
Heavy Crude
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Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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People are already doing similar here...
http://h2gen.info
I set up a similar reactor: aluminium foil waste from orange juice cartons, NaOH (catalyst) from drain cleaner and water. Just keep adding Al and H2O.
It works. Not sure on practicality. Might try it with a lawnmower engine.
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The Good Life - http://sustainable-life.co.uk/blog/ |
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gnm
Expert
Joined: Jul 08, 2004
Posts: 2732
Location: plundering eco-villages
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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This is retarded. It doesn't scale well at all and the metal is NOT a fuel. It is an energy carrier. Like Hydrogen. And not a very good one at that. It takes a damn lot of energy to produce Magnesium and Aluminum. So all you are doing is moving the pollution and waste of energy outside the vehicle.
BFD
-G
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Caoimhan
Intermediate Crude
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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And peak oil isn't about pollution.
But let's talk about pollution for a minute...
The same arguments hold true for Battery Electric Vehicles. All the pollution is moved out of the vehicle and to centralized locations where the "fuel" is produced.
But is this so bad? Moving the pollution out of our Urban centers, and producing the pollution instead at centralized plants outside of the urban centers, where there can be controls implemented?
Personally, I prefer the Zinc/Hydrogen cycle to Magnesium or Aluminum, but oxidizing metals in water to produce hydrogen isn't a bad idea. |
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Wildwell
Fission
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 2080
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:57 am Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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| Companies do themselves no favours claiming that things are emission free when all they are doing is shifting the energy process hence pollution somewhere else. People wised up years ago that their washing machine might not produce any pollution at site but someone is getting a stack full of coal smoke elsewhere. Producing an engine that runs of a finite and very useful resource such as metal, which takes huge amounts of energy to make and its better being recycled into other things is about as dum as it gets. |
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gnm
Expert
Joined: Jul 08, 2004
Posts: 2732
Location: plundering eco-villages
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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If you're going to make an engine that uses a hydrogen carrier then why not ammonia. Theres a thread on this already. Amonnia is a much better hydrogen carrier and is way more easily produced than AL or Mg...
-G
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I Have and will continue to vote against ANY politician who supports the various bailouts. Curse you for selling out our future for status quo now! |
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Caoimhan
Intermediate Crude
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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| I followed that thread about ammonia. There are still problems with it, especially since most ammonia is produced using natural gas, and ammonia still has toxicity issues in the handling. |
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The_Toecutter
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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| Quote: | | Companies do themselves no favours claiming that things are emission free when all they are doing is shifting the energy process hence pollution somewhere else. |
If said companies were honest, they'd mention that the pollution such cars produce even from a coal plant is there, but still less than a comparable gasoline powered car. Fortunately, many of them, like AC Propulsion, or Commuter Cars are fairly honest about this. On the other extreme, you had General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford funding false studies with grossly inaccurate figures claiming the electric cars made much more pollution than comparable gas cars when the emissions and batteries were counted. These false studies were off by factors of thousands, but were used as a smear campaign to paint a negative picture of the technology.
What I need to know is how much energy(usually electricity) is used to make this car's 'fuel', and how much energy it takes to recycle it. This will let one calculate the pollution associated with its use.
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The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson |
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Caoimhan
Intermediate Crude
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: The car that makes its own fuel? |
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Toecutter... you may want to also look at the means by which the specific metals in question can be separated from the oxygen.
Aluminum Oxide uses lots of electricity.
Zinc Oxide can use thermal energy.
The option to use thermal reduction is very helpful. |
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