Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:04 am Post subject: Becoming something better
I first found out about PO about a month ago after renting "End of Suburbia" from our local. We had an abrupt "Rip Van Winkle" type experience where I felt I was suddenly awakened to realities I had only dimly even thought of. I don't know why I was so shocked. Somewhere in my stressed, numbed and befuddled brain I did know that as a race were totally out of control and I was very much participating in it. I recycled, I knew oil was finite and in some far distant future it would run out, but like alot of people, I thought some nice piece of technology would come along, plug in and save us. Hallauyah. I'd just switch to driving a hydrogen car, or biodiesel, or elecric hybrid and look stylish doing so! That the lights would twitch and then die permently never occured. That salads are so expensive, that drugs, sanitary napkins and toothpase might all disappear ~ that the trucks might someday just stop pulling up to Safeway and it would close... I still feel a hysterical giggle somewhere... it simply couldn't be true!
Since then I have learned more and roller-coastered through despair for my old ideas about what I thought my life was going to be, felt grief for my wonderful ridiculous plans, and happiness that the good old human race has a chance, slim though it might be, to become something better. If we don't repeat this mistake over or eat each other, perhaps we can build better communities and find new ways of living. Maybe having some hope is just my way to cope with living now, putting foot in front of the other so I can get on with my day, and not stab myself in the neck before some looter tramples me in a food riot.
I find myself quite disinterested in disneyland. 2 months ago I thought I needed a new food processor, now I couldn't give a crap - I'd rather have a nice set of canning jars, and a wood stove and hand tools. I comfort myself with the idea that the last 200 years or so of human history has been an anomoly - we really did used to live without pda's, electricty and cars. People laughed and f**cked and ate and played, all without these things. Without even imagining them.
Planning is helping but it's very difficult to decipher a path with the limited information available. Imagining myself in a totally new scenario seems alternately possible and ludicrous. Is bugging-out best? Growing vegetables on some nice acreage in the boonies somewhere with spring fed water, woodlot and south facing garden. Putting up some solar panels and getting satellite internet - oh yah, and a nice big shotgun to threaten thugs off with. As if I'd actually shoot anything! Maybe my own foot off! Buying this kind of land would put me into debit and I keep hearing it's best to get out of debt. I could stay in the city but will cities really go feral like New Orleans? Who knows if there would really be help? Could I really live on thin cabbage soup like some Russian babuska standing all day in a lineup? If I do buy land and the banks collapse, wahoo, free and clear right? Or is it work camp city? Will there be enough cops around to round up all the debt defaulters from suburbia after the markets collapse? Given the amount of people are in debit, could they even turn half of the Western world into work camp labourers? Who'd catch them all, cop them all? Feed them?
I have a lot of questions and I'm learning no one really knows what's going to happen. I've been a PO downer at so many gatherings now I wonder if my friends are still going to speak to me ~ I can't fathom their ability to blow it off as Y2K crazy talk or the fatalistic "well if I die I die" shoulder shrug. They hedge their bets and kids futures because believing would mean changing and to them changing is impossible. Not only impossible ~ they'd rather fight to stay the same.
Those of us who have this advanced knowledge have a chance to prepare and not be part of the dieoff. All I can think of is to choose a plan that is doable in my circumstances and do it, otherwise I'll wait and by the time the gas riots start it'll be too late. A slow crash would be best for preparation, of course. I'd much rather believe that it's going to be a gentle carpool into a hybrid future. Knowing the amount of denial I've experienced amongst my friends, people just don't want to really cope with this. They will put it off until their cars are sitting in the driveway, they can't sell their houses and their energy stocks just tanked. When that realization comes it's going to hit them like a piano from 10 stories and their heads will just explode. It'll be noisy, messy and dangerous for any bystanders. Anything could happen after that.
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
Welcome.
Most here share your fears and experiences.
And most of us are here not because we think humanity will overcome our own nature in time to avoid the worst parts of post-midpoint, but because we fear humanity will fail to do so.
All the more reason to try IMO.
There is no greater gift than to go down swinging. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
You are right, no one knows how this will play out. That's why it's important to have a plan, a backup plan, a fallback plan, and an escape plan that are appropriate to your circumstances. Even then, you can't account for the "unknown unknowns" and you might die anyway, but that's always been the case so there's no point getting down about it.
There are plenty of resources out there to help you figure out your plans. Try to estimate how long you think society will be stable, hence how much time you have to prepare. What can you do in that time period? If things degenerate quickly earlier than that, what will you fall back on? And furthermore, if we have all made a huge mistake and everything turns out ok for the next 20 years, what if anything would you have done differently?
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Canada/Quebec Province
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
Kinda overwhelming ,isn't !? First..try to stay calm and keep you head cool ! Overstressed people don't do anything good (even if most boss's think the opposite )..
There is small things you can do and buy for cheap to get a small edge over most people and help you to calm down,here some exemple :
1) Good sleeping bags..don't laugh ! Buy synthetic or wool and take one's who are rated a temperature below where you are..I was a reservist some years ago and one of my superior told us that most time,he don't want to bother to use a tent in winter (i'm located in Quebec province,Canada. Let me told you that some times,we got -25C here) ! He just form something to stop the wind with snow and sleep in his sleeping bag like that ...
2) Assuming that you're (nor members of your family) not allergic to peanuts butter..get some pots ! Again,don't laugh ! It have everything you need in the short term,it last a long time and don't need processing or to be coocked...
3) Vitamins pills ! Can be buyed in huge quantity for cheap (300 pills for 14$ ! )..It take only 1 month for the human body to lose all his vitamins,after that,watch out for your healh ! Diminishing immune system,diseases taking over,scurvy and all what come with it ..
4) Go to the library and read books who might be usefull in the "Entropy Age" (to quote montyquest) or if you want to keep them,buy them ! If you don't know where to start,go to the link i have in my signature ! Not that i want to push you in the ass,but hurry while the books and shipping cost are still cheap..
5) Learn about personal survival and keep a open mind !See theses pigeons over the roofs ? They might be your meal in the future ..
There is a lot to say(like,build a one year stach of food and some weeks of water in 2L bottles),but theses small steps will give you a edge over most people and will help you to structure your mind !
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 975 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
crapattack.
You are in the just-discovered-PO-blues. Probably at least 75% of the people on this board have had it. I certainly have.
Civilisation seems unlikely to collapse overnight. Once you are over the blues you need to cooly assess your situation and construct a range of options that suit you, your close ones, and your situation. These can be very different.
For example, I've stored food and water, and all sorts of "bug out" and useful equipment, such as "shaking" torches (flashlights) but I'm still living in London and I don't have any weapons because I consider them irrelevant to UK circumstances. Other people on this forum will have diametrically differing views. Choose what fits your situation.
Chin up old boy, it's not the end of the world, that's Climate Change
(Dukat - lots of people inc myself include vitamins in their stocks)
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
It definitely staves off the anxiety to be making plans. Everyone's thoughts on this are really helping, thank you! I never would have thought of vitamins either I don't know where I'd store a year's worth of food but it's a great idea too, and I think good sleeping bags sound like quite a fine idea. I have an excellent tent so that's something too.
When you talk about having the blues I really am a bit depressed, it feels like a death in the family. I doubt I'll ever be the same. I'm sure some of you are so tired of hearing about this as it's probably a very common reaction you hear on this forum, but I really appreciate your words. The convergence of so many issues, climate change, pandemic, PO, natural gas peak, seem eerily apocalyptic, 'end-of-days' type stuff, it's hard to really internalize it all ~ enough to make a reasonable plan anyhow, and I've heard some crazy-ass plans from people who seem fairly intelligent.
Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
It definitely staves off the anxiety to be making plans. Everyone's thoughts on this are really helping, thank you! I never would have thought of vitamins either I don't know where I'd store a year's worth of food but it's a great idea too, and I think good sleeping bags sound like quite a fine idea. I have an excellent tent so that's something too.
When you talk about having the blues I really am a bit depressed, it feels like a death in the family. I doubt I'll ever be the same. I'm sure some of you are so tired of hearing about this as it's probably a very common reaction you hear on this forum, but I really appreciate your words. The convergence of so many issues, climate change, pandemic, PO, natural gas peak, seem eerily apocalyptic, 'end-of-days' type stuff, it's hard to really internalize it all ~ enough to make a reasonable plan anyhow, and I've heard some crazy-ass plans from people who seem fairly intelligent. _________________ "Ninety percent of everything is crap."
-Theodore Sturgeon
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Canada/Quebec Province
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
First,i want to show you people how i found the tips i gave..the logic might help some :
If you have a rent or house(you didn't lost it yet )..imagine that you can't pay the electricity..without it,no heating..so..a need for a small shelter able to keep your body warm is important ! But wait..if you don't have electricity..you can't cook ! You need food not needing to be cook --> here where the peanuts butter come for ! Even more,because you're without electricity..you don't have a fridge ! but...with peanuts butter,no need for a fridge..but wait,you have most of what is needed ..except vitamins ! here come de vitamins bottle !
No matter what happen..if you have theses 3 items..you're able to survive a while ..! In case of the almost worst scenario happen (massive dieoff,but no nukes),you'll just have to outlast the others then take what you need ..
crapattack :
Don't worry..we're used to receive people like you : we all have got throught the same thing ! Don't rush too much..peak oil (and the others) can take some time to sink in..it took a good while for me and sometimes,i think some aspects didn't yet ! At least,actually doing some preparations help to keep the insanity away..
About the vitamins :
I guess it where learning about personal survival come to begin to help !
Not much people think about that..to quote one of my friend : not many people realize how important they (vitamins) are and how the foods close to home don't have everything we need.
The human body is a very resiliant machine,but if it lack some key elements,it lose a lot of his strenght pretty quickly..Just try a small fast of 2-3 days and you'll understand what i mean !
Ah,yes..almost forgot to add about peanuts butter..If you eat fatty food..your body will need a bit more water than usual ! So make sure to have some (you could build a small rack in a closet and put 2L bottles on the racks) ...
About the year worth of food :
Well..let' make it clear..not an easy one ! Personally,i plan to build or buy a dehydrator..i'll make myself a great part of my stockpiles ! Most of the time,it is far cheaper than pre-processed food..
Why drying you may ask ? Well,first,it take a bit less space and it weight at least 4 times less than normal food ! Second,you don't need electricity to preserve it..As for the size it may take (good point)..i've read somewhere that someone was able to put all under his bed ! Of course,i don't think he did have much diversity and my little finger tell me it was the basic mormon year supply..so it need a lot of energy and water to actually do something to eat ! Might be an issue in hard time...
I'll try to do something similar (to put stockpiles under the bed) and i hope it will work..maybe i'll put the details on the planning for the future forum when done !
About tent :
Yeah,indeed a good thing to have ! Lately,i wondered if could not build one myself..not the usual one's,but thoses used by the UN and the like for the refugee's ! Expecially the tunnel structures..they can have a small wood stove,are multi-layered,have far more space than the commercial one's for the family and the cost can be pretty low,depending of the materials used !
Not sure yet,but i wonder if i could not build something like that on a parcel of land along a small permanent structure (like a small cordwood round house ?) ,stocked up with some supplies..At least,to have a backup plan "just in case"...
But anyway, more important of all ,it is just advices given by a bunch of guys on a web forum ! Even worst,a bunch of doomers,lol ..hey..wait ! I'm one of thoses,don't listen to me !!!.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Canada/Quebec Province
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
I've done some serious thinking ..especially for thoses unable to eat peanuts butter !
The only food items under a compact size,no cooking and preserve well without refrigeration i could find are honey and pemmican !
Honey :
A friend of mine who's allergic to peanuts and the like have done such a food regime while a week and some days..5 spoons a day give you a good share of energy,but no heavy efforts meanwhile !
Pemmican :
It is a millenia Amerindian proven recipe ! ~50% of crushed dryed meat (usually beef or deer but NOT PORK IN ANY WAY) , another ~ 50% of fat and some dryed berries not necessarily directly added,can be added after since it conserve well ! Make some bars and keep them in sealed plastics and there you go .
0.7 to 0.9 kg of Pemmican give 10 000 calories !!!!! When you think that most people today only use 2900 calories ...
The amerindians added what was under hand with it..wild onions,mint, and young sprouts ,name it !
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 252 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
Schneider you are right - while I was on a diet kick I tried this diet where you drank was honey tea. I lost weight and gained it back but it wasn't bad. In fact, I've fasted for 7 days so I'm sure I can handle "outlasting" my neighbours - I've had good practise.
The reality is even tho we know about PO, we don't anymore about the future than anyone else. We can't say for sure what will happen in the future. I have always lived simply bc it suits me. I'm not planning to bug out or dramatically change my lifestyle (I have just started a successful business that will be useless after PO). I'll enjoy it while I can - while still keeping debt low (good idea even we have a recession) and keeping survival equipment (good idea for any emergency). But I won't be acting like the sky is going to fall...bc if the sky IS indeed falling...I might as well enjoy whatever time I have left. And if the sky doesn't fall - I'll have wasted alot of effort for no reason.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
Pemmican! the ultimate food.
Quote:
In traditional Plains culture, the women made pemmican, a mixture of dried, powdered buffalo meat, melted buffalo fat and berries. Packed away in tightly sewn skin bags, the pemmican remains edible for years.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Canada/Quebec Province
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
seldom_seen :
Yep !
I'm actually waiting for my local public library to get out of a box a book dated of 1956 called "The fat of the land" from Vilhjalmur Stefansson ..the book (witch is sold more than 135$US and sometimes +200$US) is supposed to have 5 chapters on pemmican : can't wait !!!!!
But now,unless the starter of the thread ask more informations himself,we should stop to hijack his thread (maybe we could continue on PM?)...
Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
Quote:
Not sure yet,but i wonder if i could not build something like that on a parcel of land along a small permanent structure (like a small cordwood round house ?) ,stocked up with some supplies..At least,to have a backup plan "just in case"..
I was looking at a great site, www.yurts.com. These are tent-like structures, more perment though. Super-cheap and easy to build, easy to heat. on the same design as the mongolian tribes people in the Russian steppes who are a semi-nomadic people. Looks to me kinda like a tent/small cottage.
Funny pemmican came up! I recently picked up books on what the natives used "Food Plants of British Columbia Indians" as it seemed to me a smart thing to go back to what people used to eat in this region. Don't worry about hijacking the thread this is the kind of discussion that calms me down...
It is good to know about the peanut butter and vitamins I am totally going to do that _________________ "Ninety percent of everything is crap."
-Theodore Sturgeon
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Canada/Quebec Province
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Becoming something better
crapattack wrote:
I was looking at a great site, www.yurts.com. These are tent-like structures, more perment though. Super-cheap and easy to build, easy to heat. on the same design as the mongolian tribes people in the Russian steppes who are a semi-nomadic people. Looks to me kinda like a tent/small cottage.
Funny pemmican came up! I recently picked up books on what the natives used "Food Plants of British Columbia Indians" as it seemed to me a smart thing to go back to what people used to eat in this region. Don't worry about hijacking the thread this is the kind of discussion that calms me down...
It is good to know about the peanut butter and vitamins I am totally going to do that
Glad it don't botter you !
I know about the Yurts and in fact..yurt and tunnel design are my two favorites..it's just that the tunnel structure seem simpler,that's all ..
Other than that,finding ancien ways to preserve food are a good thing ! Canning and freezing are nice,but they both need high technology (metal working,spare parts,lids,compressor and more than anything else,electricity!) ! So,to me,dehydrating and using primitive conservation is the way to go since they can be done under low tech situation ..
Actually,my short term plan is to dry meat/fruits/vegetables a lot,buy some various canned food,buy bags of brown flour,dry milk,honey and pasta..Add some pemmican in the picture and i'm sure i can build a good reserve of food..
More important than anything else,i'll learn to make it myself !
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!? First..try to stay calm and keep you head cool ! Overstressed people don't do anything good (even if most boss's think the opposite 
)..
! Buy synthetic or wool and take one's who are rated a temperature below where you are..I was a reservist some years ago and one of my superior told us that most time,he don't want to bother to use a tent in winter 
! Diminishing immune system,diseases taking over,scurvy and all what come with it 
!
..
!
..! In case of the almost worst scenario happen (massive dieoff,but no nukes),you'll just have to outlast the others then take what you need 
..
! Of course,i don't think he did have much diversity and my little finger tell me it was the basic mormon year supply..so it need a lot of energy and water to actually do something to eat ! Might be an issue in hard time...
..especially for thoses unable to eat peanuts butter 
!
