Would such a move actually reduce oil prices by 20%?
Yes
25%
[ 3 ]
No
75%
[ 9 ]
Total Votes : 12
Author
Message
aahala Intermediate Crude
Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 954
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
Indiantiger, the basic idea of a government subsisdy may have some merit, but your numbers are way off the mark.
One million cars aren't even 1% of the cars in the US, if the program
reduced the useage to ZERO, it wouldn't reduce gasoline consumption
1%. You might get a million gallons(not barrels) reduction but the US
uses about 380 million gallons of gasoline, plus a lot of diesel. Certainly
a reduction of 20% of oil prices is not possible with this idea.
The quickest method to reduce oil prices, is to greatly increase the price of gasoline, but people's interest isn't in reducing oil prices, but gas.
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 1287 Location: Suburban tar sands
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
WisJim wrote:
Older doesn't necessarily mean less efficient.
It would be pretty easy to make a list of vehicles with priority for scrapping - not necessarily based on age, as you say.
My point was that the incentives don't have to be $4000 - these vehicles are worthless, the only reason they're on the road is that they're still running and the price of a fill-up is less than the cost of a replacement vehicle.
California eg. has rigorous standards for fuel efficiency and pollution control for new vehicles, but they allow people to drive 20 year old polluting gas guzzlers which are responsible for most of the pollution and waste.
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1190 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
They made a similar program here in Italy some years ago. It was an amazing success. But they did it to get revenues from sale taxes, not for fuel saving. _________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
Wow, great number of responses. After reading the thread I tend to agree that giving money away to buy more cars is not the answer. After greater reflection the main themes of my post were:
1) Old cars are generally less efficient than newer, lighter small cars with CVT, smaller more efficient engines, etc.
2) Small changes in demand or a program that aims to reduce total oil use will have a great psycological effect on oil prices. This will cause a beneficial cycle of extra dollars in the US that could be used for other purposes, including continuing the cycle
3) Older cars cause lots more pollution than newer cars and should serve as another reason to get older cars out of the market.
With scrap steel and other commodity prices going through the roof, I am sure that folks would love the chance to dismantle these cars.
My general feeling is that scaring people into caring about Peak Oil isn't going to have the desired effect. We have to figure out ways of switching people to a lower petroleum use lifecycle without saying that the "world will come to an end"
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 1287 Location: Suburban tar sands
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
Indiantiger24 wrote:
Wow, great number of responses. After reading the thread I tend to agree that giving money away to buy more cars is not the answer.
I had the idea that old clunkers should (gradually) be banned from freeways. Granny could still drive her '82 Crown Vic to the local church every Sunday - it would not be a big pollution or energy consumption issue.
Joined: Dec 16, 2004 Posts: 706 Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Car Buyback Program
Indiantiger24 wrote:
Wow, great number of responses. After reading the thread I tend to agree that giving money away to buy more cars is not the answer. After greater reflection the main themes of my post were:
1) Old cars are generally less efficient than newer, lighter small cars with CVT, smaller more efficient engines, etc.
2) Small changes in demand or a program that aims to reduce total oil use will have a great psychological effect on oil prices. This will cause a beneficial cycle of extra dollars in the US that could be used for other purposes, including continuing the cycle
3) Older cars cause lots more pollution than newer cars and should serve as another reason to get older cars out of the market.
With scrap steel and other commodity prices going through the roof, I am sure that folks would love the chance to dismantle these cars.
My general feeling is that scaring people into caring about Peak Oil isn't going to have the desired effect. We have to figure out ways of switching people to a lower petroleum use lifecycle without saying that the "world will come to an end"
Indiantiger24, I'm glad you agree that a car buyback by the government would not be a good idea.
Old cars & inefficient cars aren't so bad if we drive very little. I Reduced my driving from 14,000 to 500 miles a year. Now do you really think it matters what kind of car I use for that 500 miles? Would it be better if I bought a hybrid and still drove 14,000 miles per year? The moral of the story is we in America have to begin to end car dependency. No fleet replacement will make our energy consumption go down much if we don't drastically reduce driving. And if we reduce driving greatly then we don't need new cars.
It is time people forget about the vehicle stock in our nation. It is irrelevant to what we need to do in this nation.
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