[Shelter] Defense (gun thread archive)

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2091 Location: Arkansas

Laughs last,

Why spend more on a pistol than a rifle? Any of the pistols you listed will cost more than your SKS. In theory, if you are resorting to an assault rifle, TSHTF for you. If you are using an assault rifle, your world has gone to hell and you want a good quality rifle that YOU can depend on, not a bunch of cheap rifles for you and a friend that may or may not be there and may not know how to use it.

I recommend that you buy quality weapons no matter what you are buying. Here's why I prefer an AR over the AK, and I own and shoot both. First, the AR is more common in the U.S. than the AK. This means its easier to get parts and ammo for. Further, there is a new law, which is either going into effect or is in effect, banning the importing of foriegn weapon parts, thus, another reason to stick to the AR. Second, the AR is more ergonomical for the firer than the AK. For example, with the AR, you don't have to move the shooting hand to flip the weapon safety. This is trickier with the AK. The other advantage the AR has over the AK is when the magazine is emptied in the AR, the bolt locks to the rear letting the firer know its time to insert another mag. With the AK, the bolt does not lock to the rear. You don't know if you've had a misfire or if the mag is empty. That's a serious disadvantage. Last, the AR is far more accurate at any distance.

Instead of buying an assault weapon and a pistol, I would recommend, as in my previous post, buying only one weapon, the Bushmaster AR pistol. That is, unless you want to carry a pistol concealed (assuming its legal to do so).

Kylon · Expert Joined: Aug 12, 2005 Posts: 803

I was thinking of the plague defense,

People don't like disease, if you innoculate yourself from disease, but are disease infested, people won't like going near your place, and if they do, they die from natural causes.

Another defense is bee hives and hornet hives. If someone trips a certain wire, or activates an alarm, it aggrevates the hornets, and the source of the vibration(which the hornets generally follow), is the source of where the alarm is triggered. You can have all the shotguns in the world(which would probably be the most typical weapon), but that won't do much good against a swarm of angry hornets. You might think, what about bug spray? But this again is post peak. The biggest threat is roaming marauders, which if not prepared for natural defenses, won't stand a chance. On the off chance someone cases the place, they'll find it's disease infested, which makes it completely undesirable.

You just gotta make sure you have a bee suit.

Bees also make honey, which provides food.

Planting poisonous plants is a good defense, in a sense, they're like land mines, and the more poisonous the better.

Itch · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 30, 2004 Posts: 338

spear

Agree with Seahorse on the weapon.I like the G3 too.
If there is a security hunter team on your butt,you dont want a 150dollar shitbox and a peashooter.You want firepower.

Smoke grenades from airsoft.Just like the real thing.Do a search
My kid is going to love this.
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skyemoor

As a reminder, it is the policy of this site to reject/delete material that directly or indirectly suggests/advocates/exhorts acts of felony. Those ignoring this policy will receive a warning, and then be subject to banning upon further violations.

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Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur

He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin

Mesuge

To comply with Skyemoor's suggestion I'll use a parallel instead:

Do you remember the original Planet of the Apes Ep. I where the borderline is marked with 'crucified' intruders on visible places? That's in my opinion one of the best strategies how to build a defense line. Obviously, one needs a community to hunt down the necessary minimum number of intruders and then enough guts to go ahead with the plan and build it..

That's why pickpocketing has been eradicated from some parts of the Middle East the punishment is visible and very draconic..

However, I doubt that the post PO collapse will take such a fast progress not to form some nucleus of state aparatus here and there. In another words this might be contraproductive strategy at times where someone has spare cops or troops to send them in order to show who's the ruler..
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seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2091 Location: Arkansas

Mesuge\ and Kylon

Your posts, your suggestions, don't give me any hope. Your suggestions are especially disheartening coming from people who at least have the foresight to see the problems facing our world. Its disheatening to see those of you with the this foresight turn around and suggest our best defense lies in crucifixions and plagues. Is that how far we have advanced as a civilization? Is that the best we can hope for or plan for is a return to the Roman Empire's crucifying people and lining the roads with their enemies? Wishing plagues on people?

We are not at peak oil, we still have electricity, so there is no need for us now, in front of our computers, to envision a world where we with the foresight are the leaders in crucifixions and plagues. We need to be envisioning a far different world, one in which people can overcome the challenges that will confront us. This is not a time to give up. In fact, there is never a time to give up. We can never give up on the ideas that goodness, truth, and justice can and will prevail, with or without toilet paper.

I hope and believe that people are generally good, not evil, that in the end, good triumphs over evil, that in the future, as in the past, the worst of times will also bring out the best in mankind, and that we will once again see the rise of heros that will rally the world to the cries of justice and humanity, not more death and destruction. A world where heroic men and women will stand up to those that seek to crucify their neighbors and release plagues on their fellow man. If you don't have hope, and if you don't believe in the good of man, there's nothing worth believing in, there's nothing worth reading, there's nothing worth voting for, there's nothing worth speaking out for.

lakedaemonian · Coal Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 8

G'day folks!

I know I'm new, but I can't help but stir things up a bit.

Although I have no experience with defending a home, I do have extensive light infantry experience with assaulting, breaching, and room clearance.

If I was defending a property I would be considering the following:

Noisemakers(fishing line/para cord tied to soda-pop cans with some bearings in them for example) covering likely approach routes

Eliminate/make inhospitable all dead ground/defilade out to 500+ metres if possible...make the bad guy's approach as hard as possible...remove his cover.

Channel enemy UNlikely approaches to LIKELY approach noisemakers by selective landscaping with some "nature's razor wire" thornbushes et al if available.

Dig SEVERAL sets of mutually supportive fighting pits with grenade sumps in numbers sufficient for the entire team, placed to avoid being "skylined" from the bad guy's perspective, progressively farther from the home depending upon terrain.

Keep pits camo'd when not in use and stock with some weather protected ammunition in the set of pits CLOSEST to the home.

Use physical pieces like stakes and markers to help identify left/right of arc in pits for overlapping fields of fire...particularly useful in the dark.

If time permits.....use the pits FARTHEST from the house to set a prepared ambush/defense.

Training is required to ensure fire discipline and effective communication is maintained to avoid being identified by bad guy "recce by fire" as well as to maximize impact when section commander gives the fire control order.

In my opinion, defending a house, even one that is fortified can be trouble.

I would sandbag and/or brick ONLY the wall facing the likely bad guy approach.

I would also dig several pits in the home's FLOOR to provide immediate cover in the event the house is approached undetected.

Assaulting a house that possesses SOME reinforcement/hardening would still be challenged to stop .308.

A GPMG crew with a single full belt can cut a hole large enough in a brick wall to send in an assaulter.

I wouldn't defend a house if caught in one under assault..I'd be bugging out to fight another day instead of staying in a "fishbarrel" as the initiative has already been lost.

Have a good number of "walk and talks" to have a working fighting withdraw, RV point, pre-positioned resupply, and procedures for same.

I've also seen some extensive fireams/calibre diversity WITHIN a single collection.

Personally, I stick with one rimfire calibre for small game varminting, one calibre for hunting/defense, and 12 guage "multi-tool".

My decision for doing this is K.I.S.S. ammunition logistics as well as for operational effectiveness/proficiency.

Interesting forum!

skyemoor

spear

After 30 pages,you all passed PO boot camp.
Now jump school,in case you have to bail out the back window without breaking a leg.Because then youre done.you are caught,and who knows what happens then.
Maybe they interogate you to give up the location of your foodstuffs.

Unless you have the abilities of spiderman,its feet and legs together,land on toes first,then flat ,then heels,knees bend right,fall to the side,rolling.Dont forget to protect your head when falling and rolling
Get up and HAUL ASS.
If you hear rat tat tat behind you,you may want to zig zag.
Thats from a window up to nine feet.
If its higher,good idea to keep some rope in the house too.

The new guy is alright.500yd firing lines,monofilament lines.
I like him.
Welcome to the forums
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seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2091 Location: Arkansas

Another late night rant - the molotav cocktail.

I've made and thrown a few molotav cocktails back in the military (part of the urban training). Here's a few things I learned:

(1) Get a glass bottle (beer bottle is good), fill it with 1/3 oil and 2/3 gas;
(2) Stuff a gas soaked rag into the bottle;
(3) Light rag, throw.

Obviously, when the bottle hits the target, the glass shatters and the fuel is ignited by the lit rag. The gas sticks to the oil and burns better.

Problems to avoid:

(1) Don't catch yourself on fire - Don't have the same person soaking rags, filling bottles and throwing at the same time. Your clothes will be filled with gas fumes and when you light the rag your're liable to go up in flames too. To avoid this problem, either change clothes or have someone else throw. No matter what you do, have a fire extinguisher handy.

(2) Hitting the target - you must practice. Throwing a bottle is not as easy as it may sound. They aren't very aerodynamic, range isn't good, and again, its on fire. It would be good to practice throwing bottles filled with water to get your throw and range down first, then move onto the real thing;

Molotav cocktails are not effective against modern tanks, but could be pretty effective against some jackass robber pulling up in your driveway. At least this gives them something else to think about. Fire scares the crap out of people.

Further, at night, there is some advantage to a molotav cocktail over a rifle/pistol. Its very difficult to hit a target at night with a rifle/pistol, unless you have all the latest NVG/laser sights etc, which most don't. It can be so difficult to hit targets at night with a rifle/pistol, that in Vietnam, many American units wouldn't fire their weapons at night and instead used only area weapons like a handgrenade, claymores etc. This is bc with an area weapon, you don't have to be precise and can still inflict damage plus, enemy doesn't know where you are. You can't see a handgrenade flying through the air at night. All you will ever see, assuming you aren't killed, is the flash and bang going off. Very disorienting.

The molotav, being an area weapon, offers a similar advantage at night. When dropped from a high place or thrown from behind cover, you may still inflict some damage while maintaining your concealment from the enemy. Like the grenade, its silent, so unless the enemy happens to see it flying through the air, they will not know where it came from.

lakedaemonian · Coal Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 8

While I agree that target identification at night can be extremely difficult at times(thick canopy, no moon, overcast) the human eye is pretty capable of detecting MOVEMENT, even in a dark environment.

LIGHTING a molotov cocktail within throwing distance of an enemy at NIGHT is asking for trouble as the spark/flame would clearly betray your position and be a dangerous beacon for drawing effective enemy fire.

Ayoob · Expert Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 1038

I read some stuff about molotov cocktails a while ago and I'm sure I'll get looked at like a total psycho for even saying this stuff but whatever. There's a couple things you can add to a MTC to make it perform in certain ways that might be advantageous to you.

1. Acid. If you want your MTC to eat through something you can always add a little acid to it.

2. Magnesium chunks. If you want to burn through a structure, add magnesium chunks to the bottle. The oil/gas will light the magnesium and it will burn through just about anything.

3. Styrofoam. Essentially, make napalm and pour that in the bottle and it will stick to whatever it hits. I've never done this (I've never done ANY of this so please don't send 5-0 to my house) but supposedly it works.

Also, it's possible to use something other than a rag to the bottle as the igniter. MTC's were used very much in WWII and somebody at that time came up with the idea of using a chunk of a flare fixed to the bottle rather than a rag. There are also chemicals that can be added to the bottle that ignite when exposed to air, so when the (sealed) bottle broke, it would come into contact with air and thus ignite w/o a rag or any other lit thing attached to the bottle.

Check with your local high school chemistry teacher, they probably have all kinds of good ideas.

One thing I actually have done is to light a MTC and then shoot it from a distance. With predictable effects.

While I haven't heard of this before I bet it would work. Take a skin irritant and mix it with the fluid in the MTC. When it burns, anyone breathing the smoke... is this a COC violation yet?

I'm stopping now.

Cool Hand Linc

Ayoob, I can't imagine using that type stuff in self defense unless the Chinese invade and its Red Dawn time. I know China is building its military and all, but not to likely.

You weren't actually advocating hurting people but rather you were discussing a weapon and its uses. Seriously looking at WWI and WWII and other wars and weapons used is a pretty interesting topic of discussion.

I haven't ever used a cocktail as have been mentioned. I thought the rag was actually tied around the neck of a sealed bottle. Not stuffed inside and used as the seal. I know very little of this and only what I have seen from TV. No military experience in training with this stuff.

I wanted to share a link to a new pistol out there. It looks pretty sweet.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml

Also when looking at the sks ak type weapons the chrome bore vs black bore is pretty important. chrome is the way to go. If you find one cheap grab it.
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Cool Hand Linc Cool

spear

Basic pyrotechnics now.OK.For informational purposes only of course.
molotov coctail.
Diesel fuel,heating fuel, also works.
Rag stuffed or tied,wet front half,so you dont have an accident.
It will still ignite when it lands.TEAM ACTIVITY

Tactic for molotov assault at night.TEAM MANOUVER.Someone draws fire,while TEAM member flanks after crawling on his belly to within range SLOWLY CAREFULLY as not to be seen or HEARD.
This is a ballsy primitive LAST RESORT ,element of surprise manouver and better left to people who been trained .
Its better to haul ass.

But since we been trained to improvise,and our brain is our biggest weapon,I present my next years toy.

http://www.airsoftmadness.com/page 4.html

The TOY at the bottom of the page is what is best used for projectiles.lol
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