For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1702 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Neocons Get to Kunstler?
BO wrote:
Rupperts book is 800 pages full of verifiable facts. Anyone who says it is "silly" has simply not read it...
Here is the bottom line, if you have refused to look at any of the hard evidence of complicity in 9/11, than you can call the movement "silly".
I don't think that I've actually 'refused' to look at any evidence. You're right that I have not actually read Crossing The Rubicon. I have read numerous reviews of the text, both for and against, and I think I have a fair idea of what is presented in its pages. Most of it does seem pretty silly to me. But you're correct in that, no matter how ridiculous it seems, I do need to actually read the text myself to come to a completely informed opinion. I shall do so. _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Neocons Get to Kunstler?
coyote wrote:
BO wrote:
Rupperts book is 800 pages full of verifiable facts. Anyone who says it is "silly" has simply not read it...
Here is the bottom line, if you have refused to look at any of the hard evidence of complicity in 9/11, than you can call the movement "silly".
I don't think that I've actually 'refused' to look at any evidence. You're right that I have not actually read Crossing The Rubicon. I have read numerous reviews of the text, both for and against, and I think I have a fair idea of what is presented in its pages. Most of it does seem pretty silly to me. But you're correct in that, no matter how ridiculous it seems, I do need to actually read the text myself to come to a completely informed opinion. I shall do so.
Wow, Coyote, that's a gracious response. I'd be interested to hear what you think of Crossing the Rubicon, if you read it.
The problem with the anti-conspiracy crowd is they don't understand how a conspiracy can operate within a legitimate institution, like govt. They don't understand that govt has become quasi-legitimate at best and criminal at least in spirit, for the most part.
The anti conspiracy crowd also don't get that conspiracies don't require vast numbers of players who are somehow "in on it". Conspiracies are carried out by a very few individuals and ennabled by a few more individuals linked to the conspirators in the spirit of organized opportunism. They may have a hunch as to what's going on, but look the other way. And these people are surrounded by their minions who may suspect conspiracy but have little power to affect change. They may understand quite clearly that if they do start blowing the whistle retaliation will be swift and dire. So they continue to support the conspiracy, tasked with jobs that are several steps removed from the appearance of wrong doing, through compartmentalization.
People like Kunstler tend to see bureaucratic error rather than malicious design, not understanding that the two work well together and aren't mutually exclusive. Bureaucrats don't connect dots. That by definition, is what they do best. They're on a linear track and that's why dealing with situations that require intuitive leaps are so difficult for them. If you've ever fought city hall, you can understand how a dim-witted functionary can be the best friend of the powerful plotting insider.
It took Ruppert years of study and experience as a detective to write a well documented 800 page book about 911. It took Kunstler exactly one minute and years of experience as an egoist with a sense of entitlement to blow it off. He should definitely stick to what he knows best--bad architecture.
And in case you don't, the law that allowwed for the internment camps in World War II for Japanese-Americans is still on the books:
Quote:
It is important to note, however, that the coram nobis cases only nullified the factual underpinnings of the 1944 Korematsu case and its brethren. The legal conclusions in Korematsu — specifically, its expansive interpretation of government powers in wartime — were not overturned. In light of this fact, a number of legal scholars have expressed the opinion that the original Korematsu and Hirabayashi decisions have taken on an added relevance in the context of the War on terror.
If I had more time, I could get a link other than Wikipedia. But just trust me on this, I studied in Constitutional Law a few years back. The wiki piece has it dead on correct.
Best,
Matt
P.S.
Daryl, I already know what you're going to say: I'm some paranoid nut. And you know what? You're right. But you know the saying, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you", or in this case, "just because you're paranoid doesn't meant the government doesn't have the legal right to intern us or that the camps aren't already built and waiting for folks get out of line."
What was Bush's plan to deal with an Avian Flu pandemic? Martial law.
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Neocons Get to Kunstler?
BO wrote:
Very True
As Noam Chomsky says, If you don't think there are powerful people, who meet secretly, and make decisions which direclty influence ours lives (for better of for worse), than you just don't understand the power structure that has always existed in human history.
?
Exactly. What was Dick Cheney's energy task force, after all?
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Did the Neocons Get to Kunstler?
I agree Gary and I would also recommend "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Griffin. It is a very unsettling book full of inexplicable stuff. I don't think we will every know the truth _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: Re: 'Kunstler.com' J.H. Kunstler [WEB]
If I had been editing it, Crossing the Rubicon would have been a 400 page book. Many sections are weak or only vaguely related to 9/11. And yet...
Without really dealing with any of the controversial forensic problems at the WTC or the other two alleged crash sites, Ruppert proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Cheney, his minions, and the interests that they serve deliberately enabled 9/11. You don't have to wonder. QED _________________ "The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 567 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: Re: 'Kunstler.com' J.H. Kunstler [WEB]
I found The Long Emergency to be pedantic, tedious, overly geopolitical, and occasionally historically inaccurate. It's only redeeming virtue is that it also makes some good observations on the unsustainability of the American suburbian lifestyle and some reasonable predictions about what's likely to happen post-peak-oil.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: Re: 'Kunstler.com' J.H. Kunstler [WEB]
-a shorter emergency...
So what's wrong exactly, with a little anger, a little crankiness?
These observations help me deal better with my responses to 85mph slow lane freeway traffic, long past rush hour, boxed in by screaming SUV's and pods of flying rigs.
It helps me to remember to pose the simple question: why are they all in such a hell of a hurry? (who exactly is pulling the puppet strings, and why?)
When common sense migrates south, and stays there, rationale is liable to get a little testy.
Underneath the collective psyche enough intelligence lurks to prepare just the smidgeon of synapse activity needed to know that your gut feeling is in fact, accurate. Something isn't right.
To rage against stupidity has been the lot of visionaries since Christ was a child. We don't learn a lot from history, it seems. In spite of the fact that it is still taught with alarming vigor.
The secrets of the universe don't own a lot of leverage down there at DOW.
Kunstler talks a lot about the mess we've made, and how we're going to have to clean it up. That's all.
Agreement with every single point is really beside the point.
Consensus that allows action (intead of endless reaction) is a necessary thing - public will, political will...otherwise we resemble collectively a blind drunkard staggering toward a cliff. Doesn't bode well for a happy future.
A nice balance of temperance combined with clear vision is not a bad thing.
Who would not be frustrated with the ponderous shambling dragging of heels, that passes for expediency within our hallowed halls?
For a real laugh - browse through The Energy Balloon, co-authored by Stewart Udall, published way back there in 1974. (yes, in response to the adventures of 1973.)
Perhaps Kunstler just ties up the few loose ends from then 'til now.
What of it? Udall didn't look backward to 1942. He didn't need to.
Whatever America Ozzie & Harriet fell in love with way back then (and happily Graffitied into a national psychosis) has morphed into something entirely ridiculous. Elvis may have left the building, and parked all his pink Cadillacs. Some overstarched spirit lingers, nonetheless.
Meanwhile the doctor consults, the patient ponders the bill.
Business busies itself, retires Santa for another twelvemonth, and thermostats grin, wink and tiptoe throughout the land.
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1702 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Did the Neocons Get to Kunstler?
threadbear wrote:
Wow, Coyote, that's a gracious response. I'd be interested to hear what you think of Crossing the Rubicon, if you read it.
OK, I bought it. This thing's massive. I'll get started. I'll let you know what I think when I've finished it. This should be fun. _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
