How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: Australia?
Anyone here familiar with Australia's dependency on oil?? I've been thinking of a good place to go outside the US (I'm 18, and don't want to go die fighting for Americas obsession with oil), and Australia seems like a very viable place. Good weather, not to expensive to buy a place there, land is good to grow crops, sun is plentiful (for solar of course), and its the same size of the USA with only 10% of the population. Sounds like a great place to me, but i've personally never been there.. so many some of you guys could help me out??
I'm aware of the difficulties immigrating to Australia, its supposed to be one of the hardest places in the world. But I am also aware that they are looking for college students, and me being a Engineering student majoring going into Alternative Energy I think I might have a good chance of getting in. My mom wants to set up a 'Plan B' sustainable either in Hawaii or Australia, but its hard for her to immigrate to Australia due to her age (they dont want anyone 45 or older..)
If anyone lives in Australia and wants to help a few people get in, maybe be a sponsor or something, PM me because it would be greatly appricated
Other then that the only question I wanted to ask is, how does this idea sound? Theres not to many people, so theres plenty of room for everyone. As far as I know Australia is aware of PO and is planning for it, so I think they might want a someone like me to be brought in. Agriculture seems to be good, with a lot of land, thats not to expensive and plenty of sun to go around. Not to mention the great beachs
I think it would be alot easier to look into "draft outs" such as religion or being a contientious objector rather then dropping your entire family fortune on some survival shelter.
"I think it would be alot easier to look into "draft outs" such as religion or being a contientious objector rather then dropping your entire family fortune on some survival shelter."
I have a hearing impairment which in itself could exempt me from the draft (my sister on the otherhand cannot get out of the draft for disability). But there are other reasons that make me want to leave the country besides the draft alone. I don't feel this country is stable economically and I feel it will be the most venerable in terms of 1) Severe economic depressions 2) military action 3) amount of people 4) laws and politics, just to name a few. Plus we have always wanted to move away to a place like australia.
If you want to call it a 'survival shelter', you can, but we see it as much more then that. Who said we were dropping an entire family fortune on it either? I would rather call it 4 acres in a somewhat rural and remote area, with subsistable living (ie. fruit trees, garden , renewable energy, water catchment, large stockup of freeze-dried and non perishable foods, security, etc. etc.) - it would be a definite place to go when SHTF, but still close enough so my sister and I can go to college, close enough for my mom to work (teaching), live and enjoy. Near the beach would be great.
I just want to get out of this country. I feel what America is doing is wrong and don't want to take any part in it. I strongly feel that there will be a lot of country's that want to end our free ride so they can get a little action in itself. And with all US debts, the perto-dollar tied to oil sales, volatile stock markets, everything is destined to be a collapse. The 'limits to growth' which everyone seemed to be talking about in the 60's is finally coming to term. Peak Oil will be a turning point for mankind, but even moreso a turning point for America. Might as well get out while you can (if you can)..
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3428 Location: California, USA
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:45 am Post subject:
Skate, the main problem with Australia is that it's under the ozone hole. When you go outside, you have to take major precautions against solar ultraviolet or you get skin cancer.
Also, fact is, unless you become a naturalized citizen down there, you're still basically a guest who can be thrown out if the situation gets significantly worse and Australia decides to pull up the drawbridge.
For anyone who lives in a modern democratic society, the best place to be is in the country you were born in.
Specop is right, look at legitimate ways you can address the potential for a draft.
If you have a principled objection to the taking of human life under any reasonably foreseeable circumstance, you can at least get a non-combat role. If you also have a principled objection against any participation in war (for example because the non-combat roles are in effect supporting combat), that makes you a full conscientious objector.
By "principled objection" is meant: Either your religion forbids it, or if you're not religious, you hold a set of principles that have equivalent moral authority in your life (equivalent to the principles held by religious persons), and those principles forbid it.
So the key questions to consider are, what are your core moral principles, and how do they relate to the question of fighting with and/or killing other humans?
Then, go do your research on the relevant religious and/or philosophical literature. Research the history of the set of ideas that are operative in your moral philosophy. Get to know the stuff as well as a religious scholar knows their scriptures. Think about it deeply, and also think about its other implications, and see how those cross-check with other things you do or don't believe. Speak and write about these things early and often so you're well-prepared in the event you have to answer the questions of a local draft board.
You have time to do this and get it right.
And if it's any consolation, the military itself does not want to bring back the draft. They well remember what happened during Vietnam, how the draft dragged in a cross-section of all of the various pathologies that are present in normal society. It took years to overcome the effects of that, and presently the standards are so high that many who volunteer can't make it. Going from only taking the best & brightest, back to taking the full cross-section including people who don't want to be there in the first place, would be a huge step backward, and will be resisted.
Seriously though. Oz is great. Many of my relations live there and it seems to be an idyllic place. The ozone hole is a factor. My aunt has had several moles removed over the years. I read an article recently though which said the hole shrunk significantly last year but this may be temporary.
I do believe that staying close to the place you were born where you know the people etc. is the best way to go. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject:
G'Day Australia threaders,
A bit of info:
Against:
Australia is the dryest inhabited continent on earth, with rainfall in many areas falling! Sydney and Perth are in trouble with water!
Australia mainly has very shallow soils which are not suitable for large scale farming.
We only have 4 years reserve to production in oil - imports set to rise and our standard of live will fall and no politician is saying anything! Little Johnny probably wants you guys to come over and convert our North West Natural Gas into liquid fuel, with us getting to keep a bit on the side!!
For:(Opportunities abound for people wanting to live simply and within the limits of the natural system)
Great potential for biofuels in the north.
Potential exists for a neo-peasant lifestyle even in the semi-arid zones, where soils can be re-carbonised(see Terra Petra), and water harvested from areas overlaid with a membrane.
Land is very cheap in some areas - a town like Cobar in the semi-arid zone - you can do deals for a serviced quarter acre of freehold for one to two thousand dollars even in country towns such as where I live, housing starts at around $75,000 with $150,000 buying something reasonable. AUD
All that said Australia is a great place - we do not have a fear culture like you do in the USA - everything is a little laid back, especially in the bush.
We are a great nation on non-believers but great trusters - which should be a beacon of hope in the world - (it is rigidly held beliefs that cause most of the worlds problems as from a limited narrowminded perspective you cannot see the others point of view - but trust in the process is essential for peace of mind)
When the project I'm working on cranks up we will be needing silviculturalists, process engineers, bio-chemists and food technologists to name a few.
Just a final thought: we are in a global mess and people of good will should really try and fix their part of the world - There are plenty of people reciting the Lords Prayer but hardly anyone trying to make their sphere of influence like "Heaven".
At the end of the day we will all have to live more simply - there are plenty of opportunities for work in this area - rainwater tanks to collect potable water - heirloom seeds and gardening services so food can be grown in back yards - work on fruit and nut trees to increase their yields and work on nuts like the hazel and find more uses in the human diet for it.
(Trees crops require less energy and are better for the soil)
Joined: Sep 18, 2004 Posts: 58 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:57 pm Post subject:
skateari
Quote:
Anyone here familiar with Australia's dependency on oil??
Yes, importing 70% by 2010. The fastest decline in oil of all nations. The grid is very reliant on coal and coal is reliant on diesel (oil) to excavate/transport. Though there's a reasonable quantity of natural gas, so it is possible it may be used to run the essentials in the national vehical fleet, i.e. truck transport, military and police. Who knows?
I have no idea what the real energy policy in the long term is in my country? There's a federal on and neither side has made much mention other than some whines at Howard's incumbent govt over the price of fuel. They're nibbling at the edges on the issue and saying nothing publicly. Much like how the Kerry and Bush federal makes no substantial mention on energy.
What I can at least hint at is the stupidity, i.e. where they will not lift the excise tax on biodiesel. This means DIY fuels cost the same at the bowser. Now that's pathetic, since DIY folks are doing their patriotic bit in stalling the Aussie oil depletion and imports too. They don't tax home brew beer, so why should they tax the guy with a drum of methanol, some sodium hydroxide and some spent oil from the fish and chip shop?
Bottom line, given that's the attitude of the politicians of the day, expect a foolish energy policy to run rough shod in the face of PO downunder.
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I've been thinking of a good place to go outside the US (I'm 18, and don't want to go die fighting for Americas obsession with oil), and Australia seems like a very viable place. Good weather, not to expensive to buy a place there,
It depends on where you buy?
You could buy waterless scrub in the outback for a pinch of snuff, with no bore and what use is that?
Remember, it's a continent that's MOSTLY desert. Looks big on the map, but ditch 80% as worthless, when viewing the atlas. You've seen Mad Max the movie, that was outback NSW. A lot of Australia is like that (I've seen it), with endless stretching arid landscapes. The heat is unspeakable. Seriously, you would need to be an athlete, with the fine tuned bushman skills of traditional Aborigines, to survive in that without the white man technology. And that won't be much chop when the energy to power it gets short. Clearly, living where there's no permanent water is pointless, so that narrows the continent down.
Now I've looked at US rural real estate and there's some good deals (at least from what I could tell on the net). There's also some posts in this very site on good and affordable US rural deals in the state of Missouri. Don't forget, the USD is falling and the AUD is rising and that means what you had in mind as exchange is slipping. Don't confuse the AUD with New Zealand.
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land is good to grow crops, sun is plentiful (for solar of course), and its the same size of the USA with only 10% of the population.
Again, it depends on where you are on the continent, and the reason why the population is so small (at least in part) is because it is the 2nd driest continent in the world, 2nd only to Antarctica, because all the water there is locked as ice (aka no liquid water).
Sad to say, but the carrying capacity in Australia is already over the water limit, based on the level of what Australians at first world standards expect. Hell, dams are falling on major cities. Sydney and her satelites are a terrible example of what's NOT sustainable, I dread to think how it will manage in an energy crisis? That city is struggling badly on water right now. Who knows how their de-sal plant will operate in an energy depletion? Melbourne btw has only scraped back up with recent falls.
Yes, there's a helluva lot of talk on PO in this site (naturally, that's the topic here), but I can assure you peak water is the REAL issue already in my country. Already strapped by a 3 year drought and clocking, almost all over the continent. The worst drought in 100 years and a population so much bigger than the early 1900's, all placing a tremendous pressure on the dwindling supplies. Once great rivers are a series of disasters.
Now if this is the trend of climate change, it doesn't bode well when energy shortages mean difficulty in delivering water on mass, be it to ag and/or cities, let alone water using industry. Worse, if every industrial nation in the world starts burning coal on mass to cover their energy needs (that oil once delivered), then the super charged Co2 output will exacerbate the Aussie problem. Australia is on the front line to climate change. I'd be blowing smoke up your arse to say otherwise.
Basically, the state of South Australia, for example, has major salinity problems with their state's water and it will be undrinkable (in many areas) in the future. If you look at Perth, in the state of Western Australia, that city (and her satelites) have forecast water problems as they're draining the artesian way faster than it is replenishing. Even Victoria, a state that's generally well watered, is also having problems. Same again in Tasmania. NSW has been whacked big time by the drought, as has much of Queenland. Virtually the whole continent has a water problem, which is why the Howard govt is throwing 2 billion AUD at the problem. Will this work, I don't know? I wouldn't count on it, not unless there's a dramatic change/increase in precipitation rates. Money does not buy rain.
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Sounds like a great place to me, but i've personally never been there.. so many some of you guys could help me out??
Keep doing your homework.
Moving to Australia, given the hurdles of getting citizenship, so a Howard govt (very friendly with Bush) doesn't throw you back to a draft likely Uncle Sam, is an issue you should think over.
Yes, Howard and Bush are close political friends. Howard was there in Washington DC on Sep 11th 2001, and he saw the smoke with his own eyes rising off the Pentagon. He immediately jumped in boots and all for the "war on terrorism". It was so corny, almost like his visit was staged. That said, he's always super happy to please the US. What's more, Bush came to Australia and met Howard personally in the nation's capital, Canberra, at the Parliament House. Dude, they're mates. Bush called Howard a "man of steel", some sort of high fiving Texan accolade. The brutal truth, Howard would sell your arse to Bush no questions asked. He has with David Hicks and Hicks is an Australian citizen.
Btw, I saw the Airforce One leave as I stood on my driveway. Yeah, I live in Canberra. The very city that had over 500 houses burned down and 4 people killed in a firestorm due to drought on the 18th Jan 2003. Bushfires are not just rural troubles these days, climate change has seen to them sweeping deep into the streets. So yes, definitely factor fire as a menace to any Aussie rural retreat. It's real. Terrifying!
Listen, if you waste time/money on a goose chase, you could well be wasting a precious window period to a wiser B-plan in the US, one that offers an achievable solution.
True, I could spin and say, yeah Australia is the place to be, kick in broh, out there on sunny north NSW Byron Bay, where the bikini chicks will all lay you by the dozen, where you can score some fine Aussie sativa from the hippies at the Canna cafe at nearby Nimbin (that hasn't changed since the 70's), where the cops are laid back and don't care. If I did that, I wouldn't be giving you a fair picture. That's a tourist post card, not a PO panacea.
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I'm aware of the difficulties immigrating to Australia, its supposed to be one of the hardest places in the world. But I am also aware that they are looking for college students, and me being a Engineering student majoring going into Alternative Energy I think I might have a good chance of getting in.
If you have the money?
Because you'll be paying full uni fees and they're NOT cheap. If the ALP wins, the price of that will go up higher, as they want free education to Australians so guess who will be paying the ALP policy, yup the foreigners.
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My mom wants to set up a 'Plan B' sustainable either in Hawaii or Australia, but its hard for her to immigrate to Australia due to her age (they dont want anyone 45 or older..)
Given you're 18 and probably not yet coined up, where as your mother probably is, I'd say you're better off if you work together. Your mother's capital in the US would buy rural and your youth/strength can set it up -- bearing in mind all this talk of a hard landing demanding a rural retreat is actually factual?
But by splitting up, given Aussie immigration circumstances, i.e. your mothers age is a short strawing, would ultimately make the both of you weaker. Team play is important. Remember that. Family is always loyal and committed to one another. Blood is thicker than water ect. If times do get as tough as people on this site believe they will, you'll be far better off with family.
Quote:
Other then that the only question I wanted to ask is, how does this idea sound? Theres not to many people, so theres plenty of room for everyone. As far as I know Australia is aware of PO and is planning for it,
I don't know where you're getting your information?
Australia has done NOTHING about PO, aside Howard's plan to up the tax on petrol to subsidise diesel so ag/transport/mining is covered by the $logged motorist. Hardly a fair dinkum game plan. Yes, there's a pitiful subsidy on PV, whoopy-doo. Roads are still being built. Suburbia is still spreading out. Airports are having face lifts. Mate, it's full steam ahead, business as usual downunder, and I almost feel it's a madhouse, in light of the PO iceberg up ahead.
For crying out loud, there's a federal coming up very shortly and both sides are on a spend fest on the so called surplus budget. Meanwhile the credit account deficit grows and with that it means foreign economies can impact on Aussie interest rates. This bodes badly in the wake of an energy crisis recession, esp. given Australians now carry record personal debt.
In fact, when the US economy implodes, Australia will be one chook on the Wall St axe block. It's always been like that, aka if Wall St sneezes then Australia catches a cold. Now if Wall St implodes, Australia will have a heart attack. That happened in 1929. Similar drama took hold in 1987. The only reason why the oil shocks of the 1970's didn't slap Australia is because she was producing her own oil. That's no longer a possible saviour. I think you can see the problem. Yes, I can assure you, very little to absolutely NOTHING is being down in Australia on PO and the economy will tumble almost immediately after the US does *sigh*.
The only PO plans in Australia are by individual Australians. That's the sorry sum of it. I guess the same can be said of the US too. Now I haven't painted a rosy picture, though I do agree with Sololeum that Australia is not full of fear and guns. Far safer in the civic sense than the US. But times in Australia will be tough. My deceased grand parents lived through the Great Depression years in Australia and if it's like that, it won't be a walk in the park.
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so I think they might want a someone like me to be brought in. Agriculture seems to be good, with a lot of land, thats not to expensive and plenty of sun to go around. Not to mention the great beachs
Sounds more like you're interested in a holiday of surf and sand than a PO B-plan. Hey, you're 18 and if I was your age I'd think like that too, man you'd have a ball here, err, up until the PO drama kicked in.
Yep, you have the assessment wrong. You're looking at Australia in a pre-peak happy tourist basis and not a post-peak recession/chaos. You have to think in a post-peak mind set, because that's the longer term reality than the few years left of happy trails in this decade. After all, the ASPO gives the count down to 2008. Not much room for error on that short window period.
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Any advice or comments as to this idea??
Go with what gg3 says. His/her comments are on the money and sensible.
gg3
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Skate, the main problem with Australia is that it's under the ozone hole. When you go outside, you have to take major precautions against solar ultraviolet or you get skin cancer.
That is a very real problem, so one must wear a hat in the sun and try and avoid excessive exposure. I can say with certainty that the sun bites harder now than it did when I was a child. If suncsreen can't be produced in future years, let alone surgeons to remove problematic spots, then white people will pay the price in what is, and always was, a blackman's continent.
Madpaddy
Quote:
Wouldn't like to be in Australia when the Chinese navy shows up.
That is a possibility, but it would stretch an energy strapped state like China to effect an invasion, esp. when Australia can Brisbane line. Unless of course the Chinese decide to hit on the south east? All up, it's a long way to come and unlike the long range US war on Iraq, Australia would put up a far better fight against an invader. I'd say much would pend whether other Asian nations would alliance to China and allow bases and other logistical support? Instead, they may well have fears of a Chinese take over and stand against it? Besides, I see more frictions in Asia over the oil reserves and nat gas in the South China Sea. They all want to duke it out on that.
What's more, the problem for the Chinese is the yellow cake in Australia. That has Uncle Sam written on it. Now even if the US doesn't want it, sure as sh*t the US would dread the Chinese getting their paws onto the world's best 28% of the reserves in uranium, esp. since China is a certain future world power foe. Not to mention Australia has no end of commodities, such as aluminium, zinc, copper, iron, silver, gold, coal, natural gas and of course ag. Such things in the hands of the Chinese would do the US no favours. The US knows that by depriving a potential future enemy of resources is less costly than hot war, yet as effective. On that basis alone, I don't see Australia get invaded. One thing I can be certain of, the US greed for world hegemony will see every trick in keeping China down.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 140 Location: sydney, australia
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject:
thanks for that post MarkB. Taught me some stuff i didn't know about my own country
I'd definately have to agree on a few of your points.
Water is a real big problem. I wasn't so sure about other parts of the country, but Sydney has water restrictions pretty much all year round now. People are only allowed to between certain hours, no hosing of hard surfaces (such as washing your car) etc etc. Even tho we had a couple of days of decent rain recently this doesn't look like changing. Last i heard, Warrigambah dam was down to about about 44% of it's capacity.
Oil is also a real big problem for us. We have reserves, but they're not very big and if i remember properly, then we have either already peaked or will do so very shortly.
I don't know if China would invade us per se, but i agree that our uranium would definately be of interest to someone.
I also see Australia as a little America. I suppose this is because of our common roots (that being England) more than anything else. While i don't think that we're quite to the extent of the US, i don't think that John Howard had little choice in going to Iraq with Bush. And for all their pandering Labor wouldn't have hesistated for a second in sending troops to Iraq if they were in power instead of the Liberal party. On the other hand, i can't see how anyone can argue that Australia's little part of the woods (SE Asia) hasn't gotten signficantly more dangerous since our involvement in Iraq. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject:
G'Day all,
"Oil is also a real big problem for us. We have reserves, but they're not very big and if I remember properly, then we have either already peaked or will do so very shortly."
Australia peaked years ago and has been falling off a cliff ever since.
Have a look at Dr. Neil Williams - CEO Geoscience Australia in Hansard. pg. I&R 281 or 17/52 on your browser.
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/commttee/R6228.pdf
Reserves of 5 years at current production and that was bloody 18 months ago!! And not one of the FW's we elect says a word! With our biodiesel project I have spoken to Truss, and Anderson (Ministers for Agriculture and Deputy PM Minister for Transport respectively) - Joel Fitzgibbon (Opposition Energy Shadow Minister) on the other side. I even give information to independents and they don't even reply. Apparently Labour will convert the North West Shelf gas to liquid fuel - but they forgot about the free trade agreement and it will all go stateside!!!!!!!!!
Is it some giant conspiracy or are they just stupid! The same farce is being played out all over the world - S..t did the Aliens command them not to tell!!!
If there is a half intelligent Pollie out there leave a message in my box!!
Joined: Sep 18, 2004 Posts: 58 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject:
basketballjones
Quote:
Water is a real big problem. I wasn't so sure about other parts of the country, but Sydney has water restrictions pretty much all year round now. People are only allowed to between certain hours, no hosing of hard surfaces (such as washing your car) etc etc. Even tho we had a couple of days of decent rain recently this doesn't look like changing. Last i heard, Warrigambah dam was down to about about 44% of it's capacity.
Water restrictions in Canberra as well. In fact Goulbourn is on level 5 water restrictions -- the toughest level there is. They're almost out of water and they may well run totally dry this summer. In fact the rural community of my region (including much of NSW) has been pushed to the wall by this drought. I believe Melbourne has only just eased their water restrictions, but not dismissed them. Brisbane still has water restrictions. Perth has water restrictions. I think water restrictions are a permanent feature for most cities. This summer will be a tough one -- as it has been the last 3 summers.
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I don't know if China would invade us per se, but i agree that our uranium would definately be of interest to someone.
China would be anxious, not just for energy but for food. Unless China can guarantee a reliable source of such commodities, then they might attempt a boom or bust preemptive war, before a resource shortage recession cripples her capacity to wage a decisive victory. But China has other regional foes, including Japan and India. Russia may well be a wild card too.
All up, there's little hope in broad hectare ag to feed a population like China, unless you have the diesel to run it and if Aussie farmers can't do it -- the best there are -- then there's no way the Chinese could. Now entertaining they invade; well holding the experienced Aussie farmers at gun point to grow it would mean a guerilla war with crops as far as the horizon in full wheat head set ablaze to deprive the Chinese enemy. Watering holes would suly be poisoned so life stock would die so beef and mutton wouldn't make it to China. If we Australians have to starve, sure as sh*t the invaders will get nothing. A scorch earth policy!
I believe China has little choice but to go through the channels of trade, as any other ambition would be even more costly on her nation's dwindling resources and no guarantee of success. The US, for example, has hardly been doing well on the Iraqi oil (apparantly the #2 in global reserves) and that war is costing the Americans a fortune. It's now a mire and China would have taken notes on that shambles -- notes in 'not-what-to-do'. I can't see China entertaining a war like that, one that would be even tougher to pull off in Australia, since Australia would organise a far more effective resistance, coupled with the fact that China simply hasn't got the resource base like the Americans to throw good money over bad.
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I also see Australia as a little America. I suppose this is because of our common roots (that being England) more than anything else. While i don't think that we're quite to the extent of the US, i don't think that John Howard had little choice in going to Iraq with Bush. And for all their pandering Labor wouldn't have hesistated for a second in sending troops to Iraq if they were in power instead of the Liberal party. On the other hand, i can't see how anyone can argue that Australia's little part of the woods (SE Asia) hasn't gotten signficantly more dangerous since our involvement in Iraq. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Well, we had no choice but to back the US alliance, since we are signed into an alliance going back decades and yes, the ALP would have done EXACTLY the same thing. Of course, the political posturing and sheople all lap up the spin that the ALP would have played a different hand. I'm too cynical to buy into such crap. Hell, even Peter Garret jumped sides, that says it all *smirk*.
As for regional terrorism, I haven't as yet formed an opinion as there's conflicting information, yet no amount of revisionism will dismiss the fact that JI has been around well before Sep 11th, with their main driving rage due to Australia's involvement in creating the new nation of East Timor. East Timor was of course all about the East Timor nat gas and oil. Almost everything revolves around energy.
That said, I suspect Howard will win. People are more concerned about the interest rates and the state of the economy. Australians are in record debt, they rightly fear increases in interest rates. For example, 40% of the average income in a Sydney family is servicing the mortgage and this is a theme across the nation. They're on the wire, for what is, the lowest interest rates in 30 years. Spikes in interest rates will see to bankruptcy. So I can see them voting Howard as fear does buy votes. Besides, no PM has ever lost a federal on a good economic reign and the Liberals have had boom years, no question of that.
The problem of course is that neither the ALP nor the Liberals have really spoken about what's coming at the end of this decade and yonder. I only got a veiled hint of it in a Howard campaign plea to the public that economic hurdles are around the corner. That would have meant nothing to most of the public, nor would it, esp. when they're not informed.
Sololeum
Quote:
Apparently Labour will convert the North West Shelf gas to liquid fuel - but they forgot about the free trade agreement and it will all go stateside!!!!!!!!!
If the ALP gets in, which I doubt. And of course there's that FTA -- which was signed without any consultation with the Australian people. But it would cost the yanks a huge sum of money to build a gas fleet to pick it up. Money they've invested to Iraq lol. Sounds more a pipe dream to get nat gas in such a format to power their grid.
I think the yanks best aim at more nuke power plants. The Americans can't afford to increase coal burning to generate electricity as they already have a MASSIVE mercury problem.
One third of the nation's lake waters and one-quarter of its riverways are contaminated with mercury and other pollutants that could cause health problems for children and pregnant women who eat too much fish, the Environmental Protection Agency said Tuesday.
States issued warnings for mercury and other pollutants in 2003 for nearly 850,000 miles of U.S. rivers — a 65% increase over 2002 — and 14 million acres of lakes. The warning level is the highest ever reported by the EPA. It is partly a result of states taking a more aggressive role in monitoring for mercury, according to environmental officials.
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If there is a half intelligent Pollie out there leave a message in my box!!
I have no confidence with the politicians at all and I believe it is up to the citizens who are aware to make their own preparations.
When all of this finally sinks in -- if it ever does -- there will be, at least initially, an over whelming confusion. So many will lo$e so much. Most people (85% of Australians) live in cities and have mostly invested in suburbia. When their main investment, their house, is worth a pinch of snuff and the great Aussie dream becomes a betrayed nightmare, the anger will be monumental. I wouldn't want to be the incumbent govt on that day! But no one is ever popular to break bad news so it's 'biz-nutz' as usual.
That said, it is s-l-o-w-l-y making the main news downunder.
Now, belatedly -- and despite the brave face put on it by the US and other importing nations -- there is an encroaching acceptance that the world's oil reserves are in decline and we may have a crisis on our hands.
Yes, the frantic search for oil races ahead in Australia. Let's hope we get lucky and buy some time.
Joined: May 23, 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: where in Australia would you settle down?
Hello,
Where in Australia would be a good place to settle down in the post-carbon period?
I was thinking of north Queensland, with its abundant rainfall (compared to the rest of the country) and lack of cold whether (I hate cold weather). What are some of your choices? Maybe there is a small cyclone and heat problem, but I think that can be tolerated....I think!
Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:37 pm Post subject:
Whats the big deal about place.
Everyplace has its advantages / disadvantages.
You can harvest rainfall in low rainfall areas - ie Cobar and it has really great soil for gardening if you can store enough water to irrigate.
It just depends on what you want to do - your plan.
Only a real wanker would want to do the survival thing in isolation from a community.
The tropics are great for biofuel tree crops - the C4's are more efficient than the frost resistant C3's and in the north (south) you have a longer growing season - hey presto more biomass for your buck.
The temperate areas are good to grow the weeds we call food!
Even the big smoke has possibilities - sell rainwater tanks and make millions - ensuring you have access to an area to grow your own veggies etc. You could actually base the tank business along the Bells Line of road - great soils and really not that cold compared to us here at Glen!!
I am a soldier and have already been threw a warand as fas as i can figure it and with the little i have red no matter were you are there wil be a war. personally i think if i servive the wars to come that i will go to california. if you look at it it would be an almost perfect place. easily defendible from out side incursion plentiful for food. plenty of natural resorces in a world without power. but this is just what i am thinking but then again it would require an army to defind it. but I think those will come after the years of wars. and with california being so liberal and free thinking i wouldnt be serprised if the republic stays in power there. but thats just my opinion.
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to defind it. but I think those will come after the years of wars. and with california being so liberal and free thinking i wouldnt be serprised if the republic stays in power there. but thats just my opinion.