Peak Oil News

 

  Login or Register
 
Menu
 News
 Search
 Topics
 Stories Archive
 Submit News
 Discussions
 Code of Conduct
 Forums
 Forums Search
 Last 24 Hours
 PO 24hrs
 Peak Blog
 Resources
 About Us
 Downloads
 Web Links
 PeakWiki
 PeakPortal
 Focus Search
 Peak TV
 Peak Oil Boston
 Members
 Your Account
 Members List
 Ignore List
 JOIN!
 Private Messages
 
Light Sweet Crude Oil
 
google
 
PeakSpeak
NICKNAME

Download TeamSpeak
What is PeakSpeak?
Peak Oil on IRC
 
Member Quotes
NYMEX Crude Oil (Light) ........................121.20 5.64 NYMEX NYH RBOB Gasoline (Globex) ...... 3.0421 .1318

Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!

SELL SELL SELL

shortonoil

Suggest Quote

 
Photo Album
Submit Photo
Peakoil.com is You!


member photos
 
ICM
Cisco & Net App Training
 
Peak Oil News: Forums

Peakoil.com :: View topic - Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Depletion Modeling
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
khebab
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I explored a little bit the model by gradually increasing the level of randomness in the different variables.

Case 1: trivial case

All fields are identicals in shape (Isoscele triangles) and surface (slope= 5% and URR= 15), only the starting year is a gaussian N(11, 4.33). This ideal case stricly verifies the conditions of the Central Limit Theorem (see Illustration of the central limit theorem). ).




The resulting curve is fairly gaussian with maybe heavier tails. Also, the skewness value is decreasing with the number of points in the simulation (see figure in the lower left corner).

Case 2: shape fixed, URR gaussian

The URR is distributed according to a gaussian N(15, 2.89)




Parameters distributions: from left to right and top to bottom: field upslope distribution (in %), URR distribution (log-log representation), field starting year and peak year distribution.


Case 3: Isoscele triangles with a gaussian slope, URR gaussian

same as case 2 but we randomly choose the triangle slopes N(8.5, 2.31) (in %). The right tail is getting heavier and the skewness has increased.





Case 4: random triangles with gaussian slopes, URR gaussian

Not much difference with case 3 but the skewness value has decreased.



Case 5: random triangles with gaussian slopes, URR gaussian but big field produced first

Because big fields have a higher discovery cross-section and are economically more valuable, there is a good chance that they will be produced first and conversly the small fields will be produced last. Same as case 4 but we rank fields according to their size and the biggest are produced first. It has a good influence on the result where the production is much more gaussian especially in the tails.



Case 6: random triangles with gaussian slopes, URR lognormal but big field produced first

The distribution of the URR values is clearly not normal and is probably more like a lognormal distribution where big fields have a very low probably of occurence. The lognormal model is the same that have been used in a previous thread (A Statistical Model for the Simulation of Oil Production). Curiously, the impact of this modification is not very strong and the curve is just slightly more skewed.





Some conclusions

1- the production profile is well modeled by a gaussian when most of the underlying parameters are also gaussian distributed.
2- the logistic model do not seem to be a particularly better model especially for the tails
3- the distribution of the URR values do not seem to have a big impact on the resulting curve
4- when fields are produced by order of size, the production curve is getting more gaussian.
_________________
______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pup55
Expert
Expert


Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3570

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

All I can think of is that there is no compelling reason to believe that the shape of the distribution would be a lot different if n=15000 or n=20,000.

In other words, you have selected a sufficiently large number for N that within this order of magnitude, the shape of the sum of the curves will start to take on the shape of the individual curves (in this case, gaussian) pretty much no matter what.

I am thinking about the argument of new discoveries and /or reserves growth, and how the discovery of X number of new fields, including a number of super-giants, might influence the shape of the right hand side of the curve.

It looks as though even if X, the new fields, were large in number compared to the known existing fields (which for you is 10,000), the sumnation curve will be more or less the same shape unless the time distribution or the size distribution of the new discoveries is grossly different from the distribution of the currently known discoveries.

What I am saying is that it is possible to have new discoveries to avoid the problem of the right hand side of the curve. These discoveries would have to be sufficiently large and occur in a sufficiently different time sequence to substantially alter the curve shape. Per your post the other day, you might be able to estimate the probability of such an event happening. Example: The discovery of 10 more Ghawar-sized fields, at or about the present time, making the curve a lot broader and flatter than it is in the above examples. (example 6 might be the closest to this).

You would then be able to make a determination kind of like we were talking about the other day, such as that there is y probability that future discoveries would be sufficient to get us out of these problems.

Once you know what y is, no problem to have the conversation with Michael Lynch, who will tell you that we should go on living like we are because "we will probably discover sufficient oil to avoid any problems related to the peak", etc. etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JohnDenver
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 1844

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

khebab,
I know this is slightly off-topic from the issue you're considering, but I'll say it anyway. When I saw Stuart's recent Gaussian, which matches world production so beautifully over different orders of magnitude, the thing which intrigued me most was that it was made of linear segments whose slopes seem to be determined by economic/political factors, as Stuart pointed out.

This makes me think that the shape of the rising side of the Gaussian is determined by demand, not discovery/resources/geology. As a thought experiment, consider a parallel world where there is no constraint on the resource. In this world, there is a fortuitous discovery of a monstrous pool of oil which is (say) 500Gb in size, and is located on the surface like a lake. What would be the production curve in those circumstances? I think it's clear that production in this world will still be constrained -- not by the ability to mobilize supply, but rather by cartel activity which acts to prevent too much oil from flooding the market, thereby crashing prices and bankrupting all the players who invested in infrastructure prior to discovery of the lake.

Clearly, this effect has been a chronic, dominant feature of oil production on the rising side of the curve. The main goal of Rockefeller's strategy was to cartelize, and thereby constrain supply and stabilize prices. The same can be said for OPEC. So my theory is that the slope of the left side of the Gaussian is determined by cartel activity, which in turn is determined by demand/price. The lake will not be produced, even if it is discovered, because there is no way for the market to consume it. Producing it full-blast would be an act of suicide for the producer. It reminds me of something Mike Lynch said in his thread (I'm paraphrasing): predicting supply essentially boils down to predicting demand. I believe that is 100% true on the upside of the curve.

If I'm correct, it makes your question a lot more difficult to answer. Why should the rising and falling sides of the Gaussian be symmetric if the rising side is determined by economics while the falling side is determined by geology?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
khebab
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

pup55 wrote:
In other words, you have selected a sufficiently large number for N that within this order of magnitude, the shape of the sum of the curves will start to take on the shape of the individual curves (in this case, gaussian) pretty much no matter what.

That's bascially correct, but it was not necessarely obvious to answer that question prior to this experiment because the Central Limit Thereom states that the random variables have to be independent and identically distributed (i.i.d.) which is not the case for a sum of production profiles. Note that the deterministic shape of the individual production profiles is not a gaussian but a triangle. Only the parameters of the triangles are gaussian distributed.
pup55 wrote:
What I am saying is that it is possible to have new discoveries to avoid the problem of the right hand side of the curve. These discoveries would have to be sufficiently large and occur in a sufficiently different time sequence to substantially alter the curve shape. Per your post the other day, you might be able to estimate the probability of such an event happening. Example: The discovery of 10 more Ghawar-sized fields, at or about the present time, making the curve a lot broader and flatter than it is in the above examples. (example 6 might be the closest to this).

That's a good question. In case 6, super-giant fields were exploited first then smaller fields. Production from very small fields are contributiong to more than 50% of the total production. I could design an experiment where some giant fields are discovered regularly (uniform distribution) and see if it helps. The distribution of the timing of oil fields coming online has a great influence on the resulting curve. If you assume a uniform distribution for the timing (starting year), the resulting curve has a broad peak forming a production plateau.
_________________
______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
khebab
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

JohnDenver wrote:
Clearly, this effect has been a chronic, dominant feature of oil production on the rising side of the curve. The main goal of Rockefeller's strategy was to cartelize, and thereby constrain supply and stabilize prices. The same can be said for OPEC. So my theory is that the slope of the left side of the Gaussian is determined by cartel activity, which in turn is determined by demand/price. The lake will not be produced, even if it is discovered, because there is no way for the market to consume it. Producing it full-blast would be an act of suicide for the producer. It reminds me of something Mike Lynch said in his thread (I'm paraphrasing): predicting supply essentially boils down to predicting demand. I believe that is 100% true on the upside of the curve.

Agreed. The left side is demand driven and subject to political/economical shocks.
JohnDenver wrote:
If I'm correct, it makes your question a lot more difficult to answer. Why should the rising and falling sides of the Gaussian be symmetric if the rising side is determined by economics while the falling side is determined by geology?

The right side should be supply driven but economics will have also an influence and should make the curve asymmetric as prices will make small or remote oil fields as well as unconventional sources economically viable.
_________________
______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JohnDenver
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 1844

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

khebab wrote:
Agreed. The left side is demand driven and subject to political/economical shocks.

But then why do you think it is modeled so nicely with a Gaussian? What's the connection between economic necessities (producers modulating production to prevent gluts/shortages and ensure stable prices) and that smooth Gaussian shape? Is there some kind of Central Limit phenomenon operating on the demand side?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
khebab
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

JohnDenver wrote:
But then why do you think it is modeled so nicely with a Gaussian? What's the connection between economic necessities (producers modulating production to prevent gluts/shortages and ensure stable prices) and that smooth Gaussian shape? Is there some kind of Central Limit phenomenon operating on the demand side?

Yes I believe so, oil production is the result of thousands of economic agents taking decisions on a daily basis. Even if a particular behavior on a microscale seems deterministic (my triangle function), the summation of 10,000s of them will lead to a gaussian as long as the Random Variables (RV) modeling their behavior on a macroscale (ex: timing of the oil coming online, oil field's growth rate and depletion rate, etc.) are distributed according to a gaussian. Now, in the real world these RVs are not independent and are dependent on hidden (Markovian) RVs that are representing the economic context (growth, inflation, etc.). These dependencies create a lumpy noise on the gaussian and different segments/straight lines (economic equilibrium) that you were mentioning yesterday.
_________________
______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com


Last edited by khebab on Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
backstop
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 1532
Location: Varies

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Convergence of the sum of many oil field productions Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Khebab -

while parts of the math here go clear over my head, I'm interested to see the progress being made in the reliability of modelling the global supply curve.

I wonder if you'd consider providing, and updating, a "Current Best Estimate" of the decline rate you forsee, with of course such margin-of-uncertainty as you see fit ?

This would give some practical guidance on this critical issue. Of course if you were to say that there are simply too many unknowns (eg civil wars in major producers) I should quite accept that.

regards,

Backstop
_________________
"The best of conservation . . . is written not with a pen but with an axe."
(from "A Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold, 1948.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Depletion Modeling All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Atom News FeedRSS 1.0 News FeedRSS 2.0 News FeedRSS Forums Feed