How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
Quote:
That's right. I am Rainwater and I am beaming this message to you from the deck of my super yayt yacht uh (I can't even spell the word. That's how wealthy I really am) off the cost of Corsica on my way to Sardinia. Yeah you fellows down there in the trenches are doing great work getting the message out to important people like me so we can just put our entrepreneuroilminds together and figure out other ways to get fantastically wealthy helping all the dark races and other simple people get modern stuff like Planter's Peanuts, and used Nikes' God how I love being me
Hey cut me some slack here I'm a card also How about a laugh or two, huh? _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2848 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
Well if we must bash Bush lets be fair . After reviewing the talking points of The democratic party's planned response from Gov Kaine. Apparently they will tell the country "There is a Better Way". I wonder if they will use Al Gore's talking points on Alternative energy. I am a rightie and I can conceede the man knows his stuff and could have done a better job preparing the country for a energy crisis. Lord knows Bush's enviromental policy is a joke. No, I think instead of using the two solid planks on their platform of broken boards to talk about other things. They will bitch and moan about the speed of New Orleans Recovery(more money), they will complain about health care(more money) and Increase Medicaid(still more money required)with in the same breath be critical of Bush's spending. Then they will get into Iraq, but they sure don't plan for that and it was apparent in 2004.
Honestly, I don't count on either party anymore. It must be like having a alchoholic parents, you cant trust your future with either. As PJ O'Rourke once said giving money and power to a politician is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. I have heard it said that when you are in college you are surrounded by a libral enviroment but once you get out in the real world it becomes conservative. I am starting to wonder how may years of real world does it take to become a libretarian.
Everybody's on their own. Plan accordingly...... _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Joined: Oct 16, 2005 Posts: 47 Location: Far and away.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
OK, here's something else he's supposed to say:
"Our nation is committed to an historic, long-term goal � we seek the end of tyranny in our world," he plans to say. "The future security of America depends on it."
Now, why would the future security of America depend on ending tyranny? Used to be that a country could live on it's own without really worrying about tyranny on the other side of the planet.
Could it be because America pissed everyone off?
Could it be because American security cannot depend on America any more?
What happened to American independence? Do it ourselves sort of mindset?
Is America now so fragile that it needs to worry about 3rd world thugs?
Just asking. _________________ "Hm hmmm, uh yeah, hm hmmm, sure, well, good luck with all that!"
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
It's not technology that is the cause of peak oil it's white people that are the cause, white folks are the ones who discoverd oil and then made all the technology with their greedy mind set. This is yet another reason to get rid of...
Joined: Dec 16, 2004 Posts: 705 Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
This is part of the problem that Jim Kunstler has identified in that people don't understand the relationship between technology and energy.
Technology is the means for deploying energy use and consumption. It is an embodiment of energy that in turn enables energy use. The technology of jet aircraft take energy to build and in turn run on energy.
Similarly, casino gaming is a means for deploying gambling activity. Casino gaming is also enabled by gambling with the revenue that is generated by it. The gaming enterprise exist because of the money lost by the customers.
So now our leader is admitting that we are addicted to oil. This is a bold statement not unlike an addicted gambler admitting to his or her addiction. This is a big first step to get beyond denial.
Yet by Bush citing technology as the solution to our addiction he is retreating back to a form of denial. This is as if the addicted gambler admits his addiction but then cites his problem with the types of games he has been playing and the casinos he has been going to.
Admitting the problem is a big first step, but as we can see, there is a long way to go.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5353 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
A first step, but a small step.
Bush only states this:
Quote:
Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy.
Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reach another great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025.
Being that recent import levels from Iraq are falling, sanctions already in place against Iran, and imports from other ME countries essentially peaking, the replacement of only 3/4s of only a part of the US oil imports over a 20 year period is not going to lead to energy independence.
If Rainwater was talking to GWB, GWB either still doesn't comprehend the problem or doesn't want to admit to the Amercian people the scope of the problem.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
Bush and Co were duped.
before the Iraq war, they believed the oil estimates.
When they went into Iraq this time, the first thing they were going to do was ramp up production.
after 6 months of expert help they couldn't ramp it up as much as they thought and I am sure they learned the reserves were no where s big as they thought they were.
Kuwait also anounced that they ahve only half as much as they previously stated.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
some body wrote:
Could you imagine what would happen to the stock market tomorrow if he, err, the federal gov't, essentially acknowledged that we've reached peak oil?
Would the stock market invest heavily in coal/nuclear/wind companies and corporations that have to do with electric cars?
Or would everyone just pull out and destroy the economy?
You must think BUSINESS
not EFEFECTUAL.
BUSINESS BUSINESS BUSINESS
If Gov offers tax writeoffs to big companies for [anything green like] and they will, then people will BUY THAT and there will be money in it.
But no, it won't change peak oil at all.
What it will do is allow an economic boon doggle for [place technology here]
and more money to be made by[choose onE: RICHE GUYE, RICH GUY, RIHE GUY, RICH GAL(token)]
and everyone applauds and everyone then goes home in their large cars.
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 294 Location: SoWashCo, Minnesota
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
Interesting how Bush wants ethanol to be competetive with gas in 6 years... that coincides nicely with what many pessimists see as the end of the plateau in oil production....
I also thought that his target of 75% reduction in Middle East imports by 2025 might be prompted in part by some realistic estimates of OPEC's capacity that far out.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
Quote:
after 6 months of expert help they couldn't ramp it up as much as they thought and I am sure they learned the reserves were no where s big as they thought they were.
I suspect that is very true.
The U.S. government did a survey of Iraq's oil reserves after the invasion. They were supposed to make the information public in 2004, but here it is 2006, and it's still classified. Somehow, I don't think it's good news. Rumor is, it's the same story as Kuwait: half the reserves claimed actually exist. Made worse by the damage they did to their two largest fields during the decade of sanctions.
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2663 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Bush: "America is addicted to Oil"
So I watched. We're screwed. I am impressed that he at least mentioned the addiction. 6 years to make ethanol competitive with gasoline is very hopeful. It's also pretty useless if the majority of vehicles on the road still can't use it. also 6 years is a ways out there. Another season or 2 of hurricanes ripping up the gulf and 6 years might as well be 50 years _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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I'm a card also 
How about a laugh or two, huh? 
ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
