THE Public Infrastructure Thread (merged)

Specop_007 · Expert Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 6237

Missouri's roads (Especially in the Kansas City area) SUCK. They are bar none the worst I have ever driven on.
Overland Parks roads are quite nice. Nebraska has the nicest interstate (I-80) I have ever driven on.
Compare taxes on Kansas City, Mo, Overland Park, Ks and Nebraska.
You'll see an interesting relation. The more you pay in taxes, the nicer your infrastructure.
How much do you want to pay today?
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كا&#

Omnitir

You guys should check out the roads in Australia. Probably the worst roads in the developed world. It’s no wonder so many people have 4x4’s (SUV’s) here.

The problem with modern civilisation, is nothing is built to last. Ancient Rome made roads to last thousands of years. We are lucky to get a decade out of today's roads.
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"Mother Nature is a psychopathic bitch, and she is out to get you. You have to adapt, change or die." - Tihamer Toth-Fejel, nanotech researcher/engineer.

PenultimateManStanding

Specop_007 · Expert Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 6237

PenultimateManStanding

LadyRuby · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: THE Infrastructure Thread

That's how much we're spending on the wars now.
Just curious how much renewable research and energy infrastructure that could've bought... any thoughts?

LadyRuby

Okay, I'll take a first cut at it:

We could've constructed about 6,800 50MW windfarms. Or about 130 windfarms per state.

UncoveringTruths · Intermediate Crude Joined: Nov 04, 2004 Posts: 895

I see where your going with this. However one consideration would be that the renewable energy industry is recently producing flat-out from what I understand. In other words they can't keep up with orders. You woud need to ramp up the industry? Correct?
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Andy · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 519

Andy · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 519

That amount of wind by the way, which is deemed technically feasible even on our current grid could displace electricity of an equivalent amount as the current contribution from natural gas (20%) or nuclear (20%) or 2/5ths the contribution from coal (50+ %)

It could buy even more energy efficiency by subsidizing users intallation of efficient refrigerators, insulation, LCD televisions, solar thermal heat, distributed cogeneration etc. etc. possibly to the tune of the magnitude of the present coal contribution to eletricity.
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For ionizing radiation “…the human epidemiological evidence establishes—by any reasonable standard of proof—that there is no safe dose or dose-rate…the safe-dose hypothesis is not merely implausible—it is disproven.” Dr. J.W. Gofman 4

Andy · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 519

That amount of wind by the way, which is deemed technically feasible even on our current grid could displace electricity of an equivalent amount as the current contribution from natural gas (20%) or nuclear (20%) or 2/5ths the contribution from coal (50+ %)

It could buy even more energy efficiency by subsidizing users intallation of efficient refrigerators, insulation, LCD televisions, solar thermal heat, distributed cogeneration etc. etc. possibly to the tune of the magnitude of the present coal contribution to eletricity.
_________________
For ionizing radiation “…the human epidemiological evidence establishes—by any reasonable standard of proof—that there is no safe dose or dose-rate…the safe-dose hypothesis is not merely implausible—it is disproven.” Dr. J.W. Gofman 4

Gary

Spending the $440 billion on renewable energy infrastructure rather than stirring up the hornet's nest of "endless war" seems like such a "no brainer" to me.

We could provide decent paying jobs in an industry oriented to creating a better future with renewables. Instead we are sucking up huge resources to stir up ever more hatred and rage.

Roscoe Bartlett has called for an Apollo-like energy campaign. But now we must try to extract ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan. Isn't it strange, BTW, that Afghanistan is doing more opium business than ever since the Americans took over?

Bringing this analysis back to the topic at hand: isn't there a larger pattern of deceit and denial here? Is it possible that "we the people" demand war in the false belief that this will make us safe and decure in our comfortable lifestyles?

Renewables bring to mind responsibility and a willingness to face issues related to providing for future generations. Such responsibility is the most unpopular topic is the USA. We would rather perpetuate the notion that our current lifestyle will continue as it is as long as we are alive, and then it is "someone else's problem."
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pedaling for peace and ecojustice -- Gary

LadyRuby

Denny

We are dawdling while we re at the cusp of the peak oil connundrum.

All the details which limit capacity right now for alternative energy infrastructure are resolvable by $$, just like the same constraints were solved that way back at the time of WW2. Just think of the massive industrial infrastructure that materialized so quickly then. Such as whole new shipyards capable of putting out naval ships at the rate of one a week, and new aircraft plants pumping out one B24 bomber per hour!

I lived in a small town of 7,000, about 3 square miles in size, that was purposely constructed for munitions production on the outskirts of Toronto, it had 14 separate production plants seved by a railway network, a central steam plant and all the personnel amenites, even schools and banks, that went with it. It went from farmland to this within 20 months.

Wind turbines are cinch by comparison and we are now much more techically advanced than back 60 years ago.

All it takes is the will of government to recognize this situation confronting us today.

It seems that finally George Bush sees the writing on the wall, and I expect that you'll be seeing some massive projects coming soon. When the U.S. makes up its mind, it can do some phenomenal things.

EndDays · Heavy Crude Joined: Nov 13, 2005 Posts: 289

Perhaps the goal was never to create any sort of sustainable society.

ED