Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:58 am Post subject:
I have one daughter, she is 21. My husband had a vasectomy before I met him, so that's it for me.
I have "adopted" a lot of throwaway kids over the years and likely will continue. I don't *decide* to do this, it just happens. For instance, I have a 19 year old living with me now. I've pretty much had a kid, other than my own, living with me nonstop since my kid was born.
My daughter has decided not to have children, but isn't certain enough in the decision to have a tubal ligation.
However deciding whether to have children or not will be a different question in a post-industrial world. The majority of birth control methods will be gone and we'll be left with animal-skin condoms and withdrawal, neither of which are as effective as other methods.
Since my daughter is not celibate and is mostly heterosexual, I expect I'll have grandchildren someday.
I am OK with "accidents" though; my daughter was an accident herself and instantly became the most important thing in the universe to me. I expect a grandchild would feel similar to me - giving me a reason to live besides simply survival.
Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 1180 Location: England
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject:
I have a 10 week old daughter and I will consider a second but then I'm getting my tubes tied. Aint gonna be any cotraceptive post peak so I am ensuring I can have at least some fun!!!
In all seriousness, the scariest thing about peak oil is what happens to my wife and my daughter I can come to terms with my death but theres is too painful to even consider........ _________________ Peak Oil? crap Happens !
Joined: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 413 Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject:
You people that are planning to have more kids make me sick.
They're going to live in the most exciting time in human history? Give me an effing break. I plead to you, DON'T DO IT! See the light, or maybe, the darkness. I think about my existence everyday, and I hate it.
I hate the fact that I had no choice whatsoever to be born, I had no choice to be a human being, I was created and thrust into an immoral, destructive and short-sighted world, by short-sighted and overly optimistic people.
I can't force you not to bear children, but know this: When you see the rib cages bulging against the skin of your sons and daughters, when you see their hair and teeth falling out from radiation poisoning, when you look at their distended stomachs, I hope you regret that you ever even THOUGHT of raising children.
Unless you've lived a sheltered life, you have no doubt seen the third world countries, imagine those countries and the lifestyle of them, taking place on a global scale, in an unprecedented way. Oh yes, starvation, disease, poverty, war, violence, crime, SO EXCITING!!
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 434 Location: Berkeley CA
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:
Being 17 I'm still too young, but still I'm unable to find a girlfriend, I don't really think it matters.
But if I do find one, I don't think I'm going to have kids, I just think it's a bad idea, since this world is overpopulated enough already, I don't want to contribute to the problem.
However I think the drive to have kids is the will to pass on your genes, to spread your gene pool. Don't any one of you want to preserve your genes?
However I could be wrong, correct me if I'm wrong about the gene pool.... _________________ my page:
www.myspace.com/peakoil
I don't think peak oil is a reason not to have children in the developed world... in the developing/third world however it is a reason not to have kids (as prolifically as they do now).
The most overpopulated country in the world is the USA. Based upon impact on the environment and energy consumption, we are the equivalent of 10 billion Chinese, who also happens to be headed towards the same level of consumption. Population numbers have had less global impact as have the "trends" of technology use. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
We've got one bun in the oven and will probably have one or two more. If there wasn't peak oil coming, we'd probably have FEWER. You confuse what happens on a statistical or global basis with what happens in real life. My kid is going to have the opportunity to live thru what will be the most interesting and exciting time in human history. Sure, he might die, but people die all the time, it's LIFE. In the neighborhood I grew up in, I had two friends, 2 boys the same age as me. One died in a car crash at 17 and one died from MS at 23. Should they not have been born ? Do you think if you asked them if they would have chosen not to be born given that they knew they were going to die young that they would have said Yes ?
I'm going to do my best to teach my kids to kick ass and take names and love life and be a good person. I consider it an honor and a privilege to be able to raise kids that have a good chance (thanks to dear old dad's foresight ) to be the people who lead humanity into the next epoch.
It's all about perspective, see ?
Yes, it is. And from my perspective, you have just indentified yourself as part of the problem we are facing. Bacteria in a petri dish doesn't know any better. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Joined: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 413 Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject:
Quote:
And you're an idiot.
I beg to differ, in fact I'd think you are the idiot. Case in point:
Quote:
The universe gave you an amazing opportunity, to be alive, at this time, to watch, to participate in the greatest time in history, and all you people want to do is crawl into a hole in the ground and cower in fear.
First of all, I didn't ask the universe for a goddamn thing. Being alive is not an opportunity, its a punishment. This is not the greatest time in history, the greatest time in history was when we were microbes swimming in an ocean. It was all downhill from there. And no, I don't want to cower in fear, I just want to cease existing. Is that so wrong?
Hawkcreek, you sound like you need a reality check. I'd ask you to sit down with yourself and think critically about what I said. But, that might be asking too much of you. After all, you must still be getting your diapers changed and napping, since that's what you're talking about, instead of a serious issue like being forced to exist. Yeah you know, its always easier to pretend someone with something to say is infantile instead of coming up with a wittier retort. Better luck next time.
Joined: Oct 10, 2004 Posts: 476 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject:
Seriously Sencha, even I have gotten over the anger of what I felt to be betrayal by previous generations. Calm down. I used to always, and sometimes still do, regret my own existence. I was essentially a mistake; a product of my parent's own irresponsibility. After my peak discovery I thought, "I was right, life is pointless". Then I realized that with the attitude I had, what did it matter if peak oil was an issue? What? I'd hate living my life everyday, but I could just park my ass in front of the computer or television, live a meaningless life, and wait for myself to die. I learned a while ago that possesions wouldn't make me happy. I couldn't buy distractions for so long. crap, at least I know the future won't be boring. At least I know I won't be a overweight college drop-out managing a Walgreens in some crappy neighborhood.
Considering you hate being forced to exist, what do you think your life would have been had peak oil not been an issue? If peak oil is what caused you to develop this mentality, then I ask why? If you have great relationships with family and friends, then nothing should bother you to the point where you don't want to exist. I don't have that many friends. I spent the last couple monthes or so trying to rebuild my self-esteem, diginity and confidence after years of isolation in my room.
Some group polled people from each country to determine who the happiest people were. You know who had the happiest people? Nigeria. Yes, poverty and war torn Nigeria had the happiest people. What do you and I have that they don't? A hell of a lot. If they can be happy with what little they have, then so can we.
The only thing that's for sure is that nothing is for sure. There is nothing that says we are all going to look like Ethopians in the short-term. We are all going to have to make some difficult and possibly painful transitions to live on less. Acquiescing is just as bad as the ignorant assholes who are going to cling on to this current lifestyle.
I have felt much better since coming to this board and significantly better after spending time talking to other members on Peak Speak. I don't know I how anyone else can feel like the whole universe is going to collapse on them after spending a week here. _________________ "Abortion doctors aren't baby killers. They're life un-ruiners"
One day, when we were about to have our first son, I asked myself a question. I thought it was a simple one. I asked myself, "What kind of a world will my son grow up in?"
It took months and months of reading to "catch up" with the rest of the Peak Oil crowd, but I ended up on dieoff.org, energyresources, lifeaftertheoilcrash.net, and finally here, at peakoil.com.
It all depends on available resources. For now, I think we can afford to have two, and that's it. Enough for "population replacement", we'll have done our part. More than that will be a strain on finances, time, and other resources.
I will not say it is "responsible", "irresponsible" or not to have zero, one, two, three or x-number of children. It's a rather personal choice.
If your parents decided not to have you, you wouldn't be here reading this, would you. On the other hand, knowing what you now know from here and elsewhere, it's up to you to decide what you want to do with this knowledge.
As an aside, the Singapore government is actually trying to encourage the citizens here to have more babies (population "growth" = GDP "growth"). Go figure! _________________ Live quotes - crude oil, gold and currencies
http://www.post1.net/lowem/page/livequotes
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:32 pm Post subject:
Terran wrote:
However I think the drive to have kids is the will to pass on your genes, to spread your gene pool. Don't any one of you want to preserve your genes?
I never had any "drive" to pass on my genes. Rather, I had a drive to have sex. My daughter is here due to contraceptive failure.
I think the "mothering" instinct in me had more to do with her being helpless and dependent on me than being "my" daughter. I mean, if I found out they'd switched babies at the hospital, it wouldn't change my feelings about her one iota... it's not about the genes.
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject:
Hawkcreek wrote:
That is the funniest post I have read in a long time.
I don't see what is in the least funny about it.
Had you ever experienced the type of despair and pain described, I doubt you would find it funny at all.
Frankly, I find your lack of empathy disgusting.
To the original poster: if you have Usenet access, you might want to subscribe to alt.suicide.holiday (ASH). At one time in my life, talking to ASHers, people who understood and empathized, provided a great deal of comfort and likely saved my life.
Good luck.
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) to be the people who lead humanity into the next epoch.
