I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
On the face of it, this is a single issue protest against the first job contract for under 26-year-olds, known as the CPE. Devised by de Villepin, it is meant to encourage employers to hire young people by making it easier to fire them during a two-year trial period. After that, the contract becomes permanent.
and this:
Quote:
This time, the revolt is not only against change, since the protesters are fighting to cling to a world of secure jobs, it is against changing an imaginary world since such jobs are no longer available to most young French people because rigid labour laws deter employers from creating them.
This confusion, however, also helps to lend the protests their potency. For it unites both those on the inside, such as public sector workers who fear for their privileges, with students on the outside, who fear losing their natural born right to a permanent job on graduating with a diploma in sociology.
My question: are French students currently guaranteed a job for life after graduating from college/university? If so, I could see why the private sector might want to see that law revised. I can also see why the change is being resisted so violently. Tuesday should be interesting.
Also of Note: It appears from other articles that the suburban poor who were involved in the last round of protests are taking advantage of the situation and returning to the seen (baseball bats in hand) to beat up both police and protestors while they rob and pillage downtown Paris. Ah, the smell of spring in Paris...
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
I'm not sure if they automatically get jobs once graduating because the youth unemployment rate is something like 25% (not sure if this is pre grad, post grad or a combo). But once they get jobs, it's extremely difficult to get fired. I think Americans were spoiled, but these little brats surpass us, in this area at least. God forbid they have to get up in the morning to earn a living. I'm sure it takes a lot more than coming in late to get canned nowadays.
I think this is a great step though and hope they don't back down. This will only increase competition as they'll have to work to keep their jobs (although only for the first two years, still better than nothing) which thus increases productivity.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4686 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
French companies have to let the employees vote before laying off workers. It's insanity!
My dad worked as a consultant to a cash-strapped French software company. They didn't get enough votes to fire the extra workers and so everyone lost their jobs. How can an economy function like that?? You can't even get rid of people who are doing zero work without a democratic process!
You have to give employees 1 month's wages for every year they worked for you if you actually get enough votes to fire someone. WHAT?
No wonder that country's economy is in the toilet! _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1018 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
I just thought that a 'probation' period was universal (execpt for gov't jobs). How can any business be productive or profitable if you don't have the right to get rid of 'losers'. And I am not even pro-business! Having ended my career in senior-management in the hi-tech field, I can tell you that there is nothing more demoralizing to the 98% of the rest of the team pulling long hours to get the job done, than having around the 2% that would prefer to spend all their time socializing or surfing the Web. EVen when I wasn't in management, I spent a fair amount of time lobbying management to cull the 'dead-wood' before the rest of the productive troops revolted!
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
TylerJC, holy crap. I knew it was bad, but not that bad. I can't believe those kids want that kind of economy. Methinks their economy will continue to suffer if they reverse that law, leading to even more poverty and possibly another revolution.
Joined: Oct 05, 2004 Posts: 216 Location: Back France from Japan
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:56 am Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
I am just back France this week-end after having passed 2 years in Japan. Oh boy, my country has gone for some other streetfights!
This is the same bulls..t as usual here. Don't forget that there is a presidential election next year. And there are syndicates elections soon. These young French are easily manipulated!
No, there is no permanent job in the private sector in France. And all statistics show that job security is pretty low here... much lower thant the UK... that French politicians always point out as very bad example. Funny!
This new law, the CPE, is itself a very little thing. This is of course not very positive for the young people who usually find a stable job from the start, but they are very few. The law applies to people under 26yo only. On the plus side, this law may create a few jobs adding more flexibility in the breaking of a contract. But I don't expect it to really influence the job market. Once a compagny has invasted time and money in a good young employee, I don't see why he/she would be fired so easily. Jobs are created with more economical activity, not with such a tiny reform.
In brief, the plus side of the law is small and the minus side is pretty small too. As usual lot's of talking and wasting of time for nothing. Once one understands that the big battle takes place behind the scene for the next presidential election, this makes much more sense.
I think it is time to say the French that they have to move their a.. if they want to prevent the country from falling apart. But they will never listen. Do people listen to PO anyway? No, it is the same here. SELFISHNESS and GREEDINESS. Plus lazyness in case of the younger generation. And this is not a French problem only. The golden babyboomer generation seems to have been much luckier than mine (27yo) : no unemployment, no AIDS, no ultra wild capitalism, etc. And the youngers, who are not that stupid, clearly feel it. _________________ Not mother tongue. Sorry for the mistakes.
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
seb wrote:
And all statistics show that job security is pretty low here... much lower thant the UK...
And I thought it was bad in the UK!
seb wrote:
Once a compagny has invasted time and money in a good young employee, I don't see why he/she would be fired so easily.
I have seen that sort of thing happening lots of times. From the point of view of the company, it's called "cutting your losses". If they have to make people redundant, who is going to get the axe first?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
I don't think you should take everything the American media say about France for granted. It seems they always take the worst side of things and display it on TV with much exaggeration (i.e. two cars burning in a side street becomes "Paris in flames" or whatever). They love jerkin off that stuff, especially Fox News.
I think young French people are just frustrated because they're increasingly aware that they won't have it as good as their parents' generation, despite having more academic qualifications. This CPE is kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back, plus the Prime Minister used a special law to force it through, showing disdain for the opinion of the people.
The only jobs that are guaranteed for life here are government jobs ("fonctionnaires"), and there are less and less of these around.
The standard work contracts for the time being are CDD (contract for a fixed amount of time say 6 months, renewable once), and CDI (you usually have a six months trial period then you get employed for an indefinite amount of time, and if you get laid off you get indemnities from your employer).
The main novelty about CPE is its 2 years trial period. Do you really need 2 years to test one's skills? For those two years an employee under this type of contract would have a lot of trouble getting mortgage for a house, a car, etc - the only way to get access to it is a CDI contract.
Anyway I don't think this contract would contribure to solve the problem of employment in France : it doesn't create jobs per se.
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1018 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
Thanks for the inside view, OverLord. I'm assuming the strikes are still on for tomorrow though. I think the key word you mentioned was - frustration. I suspect will be seeing lots more it in the (days/weeks/months/years - take your pick) ahead.
Keep us updated with the real events as opposed to the sensationalized view we get from most of the media.
Nice summary article that presents both sides of the story here:
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
It just sounds to me like France has the same problem as the rest of the post industrial world; too many people, not enough jobs for them. Actually, I have an idea to solve the worlds energy problems and unemployment problem at the same time: Rickshaws. We could get rid of our cars and employ people at the same time!
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
Does everyone own a car in France? or two? do people own motorhomes?
What is the retirement age there?
do they have trucks like this on their roads?
Picture of a truck
thanks!
Appreciate any other viewpoint from a country that uses 1/10 the oil california uses. (California is supposed to be the green state, and it sucks all our oil)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
There is evidently a lot of cars in France( I work for Peugeot company and we are selling as much car to the french that to the other countries like United Kingdom , Germany or Italy)
Everybody has a car in France except in the big town like Paris where it is not necessary because the public transport are very well developped : bus , train , metro , taxis
It is a chance for us.
So, I know a lot of people in France that have no cars because they don't see the utility.
In France , there is the TGV (great speed train ) that give the possibility to cross the FRANCE without fatigue at 200 or 300 km per hour (very confortable train morever).
When I go to ski in the ALPS I prefer to go in train because it is much more easy that to conduct a car(you have nothing to do).
Otherwise , in France it is not a problem to have one or two cars.
On the oher hand it is in general the oldest people that buy the new big cars because they have more savings that the youngest.
France is a very rich country where it is very pleasant to live : the sea , the mountains , forest are never far and the climate is temperate and pleasant.
Morever , infrastructure are very well developped.
For exemple , I have a great number of piscine , tennis court near my home in periphery of Paris (at less than ten kilometers).
You can practice all the activity that you like without problem.
The problem is not with the infrastucture or the money except for some.
The problem is with the french government that don't listen people and try to impose by force a ridicule law that nobody want.
Our government is stupid and narrow-minded.
His only objective is to defend the interest of a minority : the more rich persons.
It is always the same problem : cupidity.
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with France?
rogerhb wrote:
jaws wrote:
It's also weird in that the richest people, those who live in inner city Paris, also have the lowest rate of car ownership.
'Ow you say, er, taxi?
Bus, taxi, metro, train, why car?
Because busses and trains are for poor people. (Taxis are too expensive for everyday use, metro isn't instant gratification - plus it may be uncomfortable.)
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And I thought it was bad in the UK!
