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I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.

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Peakoil.com :: View topic - Another build in crude inventories send prices south.
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Another build in crude inventories send prices south.
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firestarter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Inventories up

This is only one quarter of the world's supply picture. Is the rest of the world's inventory also in the historical high range?

Has supply somehow outpaced demand or is there some funny numbering going on here?
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strider3700
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

To be expected. With refineries being down for maintenance and the winter fuel to summer fuel switch over We use less oil. There should have been a draw down in gasoline supplies last week.

Don't worry we'll start sucking those reserves down pretty quick in a month or so.
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Dreamtwister
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

It's been over $60 all week, and is hovering around $66 as we speak. I wouldn't exactly call that "heading south".
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Eli
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

We are still suffering the effects of the refining capacity that has been shut down after Katrina.

The big issue that is showing up again and again is the fact that distillates are being drawn down faster than expected. When distillates are running high price wise it serves to keep oil prices high as well. We are also have increased demand.

More refinery maintenance is scheduled and imports from Europe are no longer enough to keep pace with gasoline demand. So we have an enhanced seasonal shortfall as the refiners switch to new fuel blends and are doing more maintenance.

And this my own question what is the composition of the oil that is growing in the US stockpile?
To me that is absolutely key, to the industry. It is one thing if all this oil build up is light sweet crude and another if it is sour heavy. What we have in stockpile very well could be oil that is much harder to refine. When you get down to it PO is peak light sweet crude.
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DantesPeak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

With the introduction of new exchange traded commodity investment funds, more and more of those inventories are actually owned by investors. Not only are those investors holding those positions as long term investments, but they will be holding only those oil inventories meeting futures specifications.

So like Eli says, what inventories are left? We already know the SPR is only about 30% or so high quality oil easily refined. Maybe these inventories are not as readily available or as high a quality as generally assumed.
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firestarter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Eli wrote:

And this my own question what is the composition of the oil that is growing in the US stockpile?
To me that is absolutely key, to the industry. It is one thing if all this oil build up is light sweet crude and another if it is sour heavy. What we have in stockpile very well could be oil that is much harder to refine. When you get down to it PO is peak light sweet crude.



Eli, I understand the bottleneck relative to refinery outputs, which certainly helps explain the crude build of late. I'm still curious as to the world's overall inventory situation. Is it in the same positive range as the USA's?

It seems to me that America's crude inventory has a disproportionate effect on crude prices, especially considering it's only 1/4 of the world's market.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that inventory data appears to tell us nary a thing about actual production at any given time, yet markets seem to give it irrationally informative weight.
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Eli
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Ok, yeah

Your are right on. To point at the simple build of US oil stockpile and say "hey look their is no oil supply problem" is complete foolishness and some people are doing that.

That is why I asked the question of what is the quality of oil being built up which no one really knows.

We have hell to pay if it is over 50% heavy crude that stuff is murder on equipment. If that is the oil we have to work with then look for more fires and explosions this summer.

I can't answer whether or not the same thing is going on in other countries, I have heard and seen examples where developing countries are being priced out of the market. But I think India and Chinese demand would take up slack in the market just as soon as the US would.
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Dreamtwister
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Eli wrote:
And this my own question what is the composition of the oil that is growing in the US stockpile?


There was some talk around here about a lot of Heavy Maya (24 API / 3% sulfur by weight) being added to the SPR, but I have no idea how much of it. Basically just barrels of asphalt and roof tar, really.
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americandream
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Human nature is amazing......here we have crude thresholds steadily going ballistic...and the odd little inflection is seen as a fall down south...............................

I reckon these numbskulls that pathetically pass off as the human race wont even register lifestyle decline.........let alone take measures to alter their habits.

Lol......our leaders are useful patsies for the hypocrites we all are.........I reckon they earn every cent we pay them. I wonder when they're going to really tell us just how spoilt we really are.
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Zardoz
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Eli wrote:
...That is why I asked the question of what is the quality of oil being built up which no one really knows...


This Norwegian talked about exactly that. The deteriorating quality of what is left has hardly been considered, from what I can tell.

http://www.energybulletin.net/14136.html

"The second factor to consider is oil quality, actually another side of the same issue. Oil on the world market is gradually becoming heavier (and increasingly sour, which is an environmental problem). Heavy oil is more difficult, more expensive and more energy intensive to refine into the lighter products demanded by the market, such as gasoline, diesel and airplane fuel."
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firestarter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

americandream wrote:
Human nature is amazing......here we have crude thresholds steadily going ballistic...and the odd little inflection is seen as a fall down south...............................
.



I was being flippant with my description "south".
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smiley
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the rest of the world's inventory also in the historical high range? Has supply somehow outpaced demand or is there some funny numbering going on here?


Well the EIA is not exactly know for its unbiased handling of statistics and numbers. If you look at the real historical picture, stocks are not in the 'high' range. They are hovering around the average.

That is neither good nor bad. But I think that with the current geopolitical situation the investors are looking for something better than 'neutral' before they are willing to let prices lower.

Moreover, if you look at the supply picture you will see that the US domestic production is about 400.000 bd down from last year. That shortfall has to be imported on top of the regular imports.

So on the one hand you have an increased risk of supply shocks, and on the other an increased vulnerability to supply shocks due to higher imports.

The question about the composition of the stocks (heavy/light) is very interesting. I wish I knew the answer.

What I do see in the motor gasoline numbers is that the amount of finished products is relatively low, and the amount of blending components is making up an ever increasing part of the total motor gasoline number. What exactly these blending components are is unclear as the definition includes a long list of substances. However it is certainly not something which you can put in your tank and drive off.
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hoplite
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

70% of us refining capacity is FOR SOUR CRUDE.

Relax, I say AGAIN, PO is not going to be a problem in our lifetimes! (no matter how much you wish it to be so...)
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ozkrenske
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
70% of us refining capacity is FOR SOUR CRUDE.

Relax, I say AGAIN, PO is not going to be a problem in our lifetimes! (no matter how much you wish it to be so...)


Wow, Hoplite your the first centenarian I've met online. Or maybe you are already dead. Peak Oil and it's higher energy costs are already a problem. If it wasn't for nationalistic standards, loose credit and employee fears most airlines in the world would of gone bye bye in 2004-5.

Instead the airlines are having guarantees and loans extended, getting massive cost reductions in non fuel areas and still going backwards. I see this as counting as a problem.

Repeat the same for trucking where individual owner operators are being destroyed at the moment. These hard working people were sold a bum idea that fuel would be cheap for a long time. All of a sudden their normal running costs are doubled and their contractual payments have stayed the same or even been forced lower. Another problem that is already occurring.

I won't discuss massive increases in national balance of trade debts, mainly because no one in the US government seems to care. One day though it will bite and the reaction will be similar to what happens when a nice pet suddenly becomes violent. Disbelief and panic.
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DantesPeak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Another build in crude inventories send prices south. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

"maybe you are already dead" - could be why he is not worried about PO in his lifetime.

Meanwhile if there is an embargo of oil from Iran, we here in the US will be doing a lot of roof repairs with that heavy SPR oil while we are stuck at home.
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