Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: Moving to Chili
I'm fantasizing (wheelchairs are less than friendly in the boondocks) about homesteading in Chili. Let's consider living there. I'd like to hear opinions regarding location, preparation, resources, people, and the practicality of. I suppose the further south you go there the sparser the
population is with all of it's give and take.
I think it might compare well with other places in which to survive.
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Moving to Chili
I have also thought about moving somewhere in the Southern Cone--Chile, Argentina, Uruguay. You should probably learn some Spanish first, and, if you decide on Chile, please learn to spell it properly. Chili is food, not a country.
There are some good articles on Chile, Argentina, etc, on escapeartist.com--just be wary of all the real estate hype found there. _________________ All politics emanates from a barrel of oil. -- after Mirabeau
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Moving to Chili
I would love to move to the magical land of "Chili," where deliciously spicy peppers of all kinds grow all year.
I think this is a good rule for moving: If you don't know enough local people intimately -- a quantity I cannot define numerically -- then you should not move there.
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Moving to Chili
JSB, you should urgently do a web search under the name "Pinochet" and read the history of what happened in Chile in the 1970s. Chile was a democracy before that time period, and has since returned to democracy. But the fact remains that another Pinochet could happen again, and you do not want to be there if it does.
Also, the best bet in any crisis scenario is to be in a country where you have citizenship by birth. I assume that's probably the USA if for no other reason than the fact that most of us on this board are from here. Even the worst excesses of the present administration are nothing compared to what's happened in Chile and a number of other places.
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Moving to Chili
I recommend you also do a web search under the name "George W Bush" and let me know what you find. People aren't disappearing here, yet, but give us half a chance within a serious energy depletion crises (that never ends), and a police state is all but guaranteed. Also, I would rather live in a remote area outside of a country that has the potential of a nuclear exchange, and be more responsible for my own survival. 80% of the population lives in Santiago, leaving so much difficult to access wilderness to dissapear in. "The southern coast of Chile is a labyrinth of fjords, inlets, canals, twisting peninsulas, and islands"...use your police or military resources post peak and track down a single gringo there? I'd take my chances.
For myself this is all acedemic anyway, as I mentioned before i'm in a wheelchair. Just a fantasy for me, but if I could physically do such a thing i'd look, learn about, and be continuingly interested in southern Chile.
Joined: Mar 05, 2006 Posts: 30 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Moving to Chile
gg3 wrote:
Also, the best bet in any crisis scenario is to be in a country where you have citizenship by birth. I assume that's probably the USA if for no other reason than the fact that most of us on this board are from here. Even the worst excesses of the present administration are nothing compared to what's happened in Chile and a number of other places.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Really. I assume that it's ignorance and cultural superstition speaking, but it's still just as wrong.
We start off with the premise that just about all of the world is controlled by a group of quasi-gangsters called "GOVERNMENT" and these same thugs seriously consider the citizens of their particular turf to be the property of the government. The citizens are considered to be nothing more than cows to be milked until they can give no more and then disposed of. In a crisis situation they will do the most appalling things to their own citizens. Idealists don't like that characterization, but within the broad brush of generalization it's an accurate picture.
(if anyone disagrees with this characterization, they can vanquish my arguments by showing me a single government anywhere in the world that is run by honorable politicians, where the rule of law is enforced and the people have the rights of due process. Good Luck)
We follow this characterization by pointing out that in the 20th century, it was the governments of various nations around the world that killed over 100 million of their own citizens. Injury or death inflicted by ones own government is always more of a threat than violence due to crime or accident. This is one of the best proofs that governments consider the citizens of their country to be their property- to dispose of as they see fit.
There is, however, one group of people who always get "kid glove" treatment from governments, and they're known as "tourists." It follows that the trick to living a life of freedom and peace is to always be perceived by the government as a tourist. The author WG Hill wrote a number of books on this subject after the author Harry Browne penned the initial philosophy in "How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World."
Perceptions are everything. I live in Venezuela, for example, and as far as the government is concerned I'm just a tourist. My children aren't subject to the draft, compulsory education laws, mandatory vaccinations, etc., and when we do things that might get a local in trouble the police just wave us on. We're tourists, after all, and we're here spending money.
It is possible to move to Chile and be a "permanent tourist" by taking a trip to Argentina every 3 months to "clock out" and "clock back in" at the border. Officially, you're a tourist. Everyone likes tourists and nobody wants to injure the tourist trade by giving the tourists a hard time.
The "PT Philosophy" emphasizes the "5-Flag" theory, which says that you should have citizenship from a country that you don't live in. They're claiming ownership of you but you never visit. Your second flag is the place you keep your money, and you shouldn't live there. Your third flag is where you make your money, and you shouldn't live there either. Your fourth flag is where you have your residency, and your fifth flag is where you play.
It sounds complicated, but in the age of the internet it's easy. The result of such a strategy is that the people who consider themselves your "owners" never get their hands on you, and the countries who have you in their possession don't have access to your money (it's in another country) and can't wreck your business (it's in a different country as well). They're happy to receive the money that you're spending because you're a tourist.
If you're living the "PT" thing in some country, it's somewhat like staying in a hotel. If the service slips or the management raises the rates, you go find another place to live. You're free to come and go precisely because you AREN'T a citizen of that country. After Castro took over in Cuba and really cracked down on the brain-drain, anyone with a foreign passport was still free to leave. A Cuban passport wouldn't get you out of the country. They were stuck with him.
It's the same no matter where you look. The foreigners may be thrown out, but the smart ones had already sold out long before and left of their own accord. The foreigners are almost never "held hostage" by the government of the country they're in.
Doing this as a family is a bit more complicated in some areas and a lot easier in other areas, but that's a different story.
My point in that most Americans are woefully ignorant of the world around them: 80% of people in the US don't even have a US passport. They only know about other countries from what they see on TV or read about... which means they only know what the producers and publishers want them to see... which usually has an agenda. People in the US fear the unknown, and other countries are unknown.
I can safely say that my position in Venezuela is actually safer than if I were living in the US. My passport is from the US, but neither my money nor my person is in the US. What's the US going to be able to do to me? I'm living in Venezuela but I'm not Venezuelan. If things get too weird I can leave. My money is not in Venezuela, and most of my business efforts are not in Venezuela. As long as I don't call attention to myself I can always just pack up and leave.
I'm describing a process that works just about anywhere in the world, one that provides much more safety and freedom than being in the country that you're a citizen of. The wilder and more chaotic the world becomes, the less likely citizenship status will mean anything. Governments will be driven to desperate measures and while foreigners will be able to leave the citizens probably won't. _________________ Strategic Relocation to Margarita Island
http://bulletproofretirement.com
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