Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
The problem with avoiding the draft is that the criteria for avoiding it is too limited. Someone can go for this whole CO/pacifist crap so they can avoid "service," or in my case, wasted time. This doesn't work for me, because I'm not a pacifist, and it will be very difficult for me to lie about it. Similarly, I don't care much for being a part of such an organization, since it obviously isn't compatible for me for numerous reasons, just like how a gay guy wouldn't be compatible in a town of stereotypical...people who hate gay people for some reason.
Watch out for words like "honorable" and "dishonorable." In the context of any kind of "national service," these words are used for propaganda purposes, and are loaded with all kinds of emotional baggage. They are used to reward those who submit and crap on those who resist. It is just more divide and conquer, and benefits the bad guys. You should also watch out for other propaganda phrases, like "American soil," "service to your country," "killing (exterminating, dominating) is necessary." Those usually are near the "honorable, dishonorable," propaganda words.
So if you can't bring out CO/pacifist stuff which may or may not be true, and you still don't want to put up with bullshit, then, well, you can fake death, I suppose. You obviously wouldn't be doing it to scam life insurance; you'd be doing it for the sake of being anonymous. Perhaps you have some friends in a remote area who would be willing to shelter you if such a situation were to occur. The fundamental here is to be hidden, but do realize that avoiding the draft could make you a target probably for extended periods, just like how the pentagon is trashing people who dodged Vietnam. Of course, in the context of collapse and failing central control, then it probably won't matter at all in the future.
So as far as I know you could submit and take it in the ass, most likely travel to an especially dangerous, toxic shithole, risk being killed or maimed by fire, vaccinations that might not work with your body, contaminated water, and all that stuff. Lets imagine, ignoring the improbablility of this, that you won't be killed or maimed by metal fragments and other wonderful things, won't have severe, negative reactions to various toxins you've been exposed to; you won't kill yourself after coming back to your town and realizing that you can't relate to anyone. If you are in the same physical, mental, and emotional condition you were in before your "service," then, well, you're back to where you were before. But, hey, at least you'll have propagandists calling you "honorable."
Like that Goebbles guy said, the best thing that can happen to a soldier is that he'll come home alive. People will try and justify your wasted time as a learning experience, or things will be easier now since you've been through "the thick and thin." Of course, you can learn on your own time about things that you find relevant, and having the right attitude makes everything easier; you don't have to risk injury and death to learn. And if you do want to learn stuff that involves risking injury and death, it doesn't have to be modern war that benefits people who amuse themselves by making everyone miserable.
The costs of citizenship today, include the responsibility to dissent in the strongest possible terms about the course of the present administration. And dissent also includes taking direct action, for example by registering new voters and making darn sure they get to the polls and vote. Every single vote counts. Vote like your life depends on it.
Gary Malcolm, I am still waiting to see what you have to say for yourself. Or have you suddenly gotten shy? Itch did a darn good job of counter-arguing my posting, in strong language, without having to indulge in bush-league tactics. (Good one, Itch!)
Bike756, if it turns out that you have some disqualifying medical condition (the list is quite long and can be found online), or if it turns out that you're gay (one never knows; I didn't know for sure until I was in college), or if it turns out you're a woman's soul in a man's body, that will resolve the situation for you. But if not, then you're going to have to put princple into action and establish track record for pacifism.
If this administration tried to start up a draft, Republicans won't win the presidency for another 20 years, so it's not terribly likely. But don't count on probabilities; take charge of your own circumstances.
And if you do want to learn stuff that involves risking injury and death, it doesn't have to be modern war that benefits people who amuse themselves by making everyone miserable.
Brilliant post Itch. _________________ -Dac
Winners never quit and quiters never win, but those that never win and never quit are idiots.
Killing has been call 'necessary' so often, by so many, with such a plethora of usefully conniving excuses that we forget that it is wrong. And by wrong I mean evil, Fark, malicious, incomprehensible, subhuman, pathetic, cowardly, unimaginable, and inhuman.
There is no such thing as an honorable way to kill people, you brainwashed monster.
G$
Hey, gary, why don't you tell us all where you live so we can come and take your belongings when things get really bad...
Seriously, though, have you ever studied history? What utopia do you live in?
On the topic at hand, I agree with most of the other posts. If you're looking to avoid the draft, either become politically active and change the system from the inside, or, if you think that's hopeless, leave and become a citizen of another country.
Hey, gary, why don't you tell us all where you live so we can come and take your belongings when things get really bad...
Que tal, chicas?... some of us have to work
Yeah, Itch put it well... any time someone busts out the 'honor' bullshit in the context of KILLING people you can chalk it up to propaganda.
And I'm right here in good old Eugene, Oregon and I'm happy to help you out if you need it, buddy. Or just come on over for some soup, bread and a glass of wine friend. I love to bake and share so you don't have to be a bitch about it!
Mostly I think that almost all violence is the result of cowardice and stupidity. If you can't think of something better than pulling a trigger then you are very likely to get the common darwinian result of your lack of brain power.
Imagine what my nation could be like if the leadership had the bravery to stand up for it's most basic convictions? Life, Freedom, Pursuit of Happiness, Liberty, Peace...!?! We don't even have the balls to practice what we send those poor dumb bastards to Iraq to kill and be killed for. No honor there, just pathos. But I'm sure the members of the current ruling death-cult religion get their rocks off to the daily body count.
G$ _________________ Gary Malcolm
US Empire
There is no alternative source for our gluttony. Power down or die.
In the next draft, women will more than likely be drafted right along with the men, so a sex change operation won't really help. During WWII, the draft age went all the way up to 45 years old. I fear no one is safe from the next draft.
Joined: Mar 05, 2006 Posts: 30 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: How To Avoid Being Drafted
I will preface this post by first saying that I served honorably in the Marine Corps for over 8 years, in the infantry. I have absolutely no qualms about killing enemies, or defending the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. In other words, I have not only paid my dues but I understand the needs of the armed forces as well as the effects on the civilian who is run through the program.
There was also a time in my past when I truly cared about rectifying some of the problems in the US, and since the political system is unresponsive to anyone but major corporate interests, the only avenue open was the courts. I was a civil rights litigant at one point, and associated with a group of civil rights litigants who regularly had cases make the docket of the Supreme Court (appearing pro se). One of my friends has been to the SC 4 times, winning 3 out of 4 as a pro se.
One of the issues that used to come up in discussions was the draft, not as a threat per se, but because some of the case law that came out of the 1960's was extremely useful to us. For this reason, I am more than passably familiar with the issue of the draft and how to deal with it.
There are several problems with the draft, and specifically the CO status. The case to read is US v Seeger, and you'll probably need a good civil rights litigant to help you out. Essentially what the case is saying is simple: the Supreme Court defined a 5-part test to determine what "truly and and sincerely held" religious beliefs are. I seriously doubt that 99% people who consider themselves religious would qualify under this test.
Well over 99% of Christians don't stand a chance under this test if the judge wants to pursue a rigorous line with the finding of fact. I'm not going to go into the CO status issue because it's a dead issue. Most of the people discussing this don't have a clue as to what they're talking about, and all they do is mislead. However, there is a way to get out of the draft, but it requires the courage of conviction. Here is how it works:
It is well established in American Jurisprudence that you cannot be forced to give up Constitutionally protected rights.
Joining the armed forces will require that you give up some of your Constitutionally protected rights.
Therefore, you can ONLY join the armed forces VOLUNTARILY.
If the reader cannot understand this, stop here and keep repeating this until it is understood. This is the bedrock that you will have to stand upon. Unfortunately, if the reader is like the majority of Americans, they have no clue just what rights are actually protected by the Constitution. It has been pointed out by men more learned than I am that not knowing what your rights are is the equivalent of not having any rights.
The government of the United States can COMPEL you to appear at an armed forces induction center. They can throw you in jail if you refuse to go. However, the government of the US cannot compel you to voluntarily give up your rights, which is what you will be doing if you sign the paperwork involved with being "drafted" into the armed forces.
The oath, the raising of the hand and swearing, they mean nothing. It's all a stage production to make you think that you're already in and get you to sign the paperwork later that day. However, that doesn't mean that you should participate. Loudly assert that you demand all of your rights at all times, and you waive none of your rights at any time. Ask if you will be waiving your 4th Amendment protections or your 1st Amendment rights by swearing an oath. Refuse to obey the orders while loudly protesting that you refuse to relinquish your rights.
It is possible (probably even) that you will be hauled into a room somewhere and intimidated or even physically assaulted. This must be endured. You must continue to hold tight to your position. Absolutely refuse to sign any paperwork because you refuse to waive any fundamental rights. There is no other reason for refusing to sign the paperwork that is particularly valid.
You must stay on point and not be sidetracked. Your argument is that you refuse to waive or otherwise surrender any of your Constitutionally protected rights, and that's where you must draw the line. If the people at the induction center try to tell you that you won't be waiving your rights, you must be familiar enough with the UCMJ (that's the Uniform Code Of Military Justice) to know just what rights are automatically waived for members of the armed forces. One is the protection against search and seizure without a warrant, another is the freedom of speech.
Point out that joining the armed forces requires that you waive these rights, and you refuse to waive these rights. You will be on firm ground here, as long as you stay on point. Calmly, methodically explain you point and do not allow yourself to be drawn off into other issues. Do not get excited, angry or truculent. STAY ON POINT.
No lawyer can argue this for you, no friend can help. If you cannot do this on your own- alone, you cannot "fight the draft" in an effective manner. I no longer know if someone would even be allowed to make such objections: With the passage of the PATRIOT act, it is arguable that the Constitution has been gutted. I leave that to wiser men than I to decide.
I know 2 men who successfully refused to be drafted in the early 1970's in the manner I've described. In one case they kept him in the Louisville induction center for 3 days. He was beaten and refused food and bedding. After 3 days of refusing to change his position, they threw him out onto the street (literally). The other guy made his argument and was on his way home that afternoon (he had gone to law school so his argument sounded a lot prettier, I'm sure).
So, to sum up, read the SEEGER case and learn what your rights really are and be prepared to defend them. That will take you much further than CO status. If I appear to have beat this to death, forgive me. Joining groups is easy: standing alone to defend your rights is hard. _________________ Strategic Relocation to Margarita Island
http://bulletproofretirement.com
If you are unwilling to work within the political processes of the United States and accept the result whether you agree with it or not, you should not be a citizen of the United States.
You should renounce your US citizenship and throw your lot in with a different country. You should do it as soon as possible.
Tommy, I never asked to be an American citizen. I was born on land that legally belongs to the Chickasaw nation. The land I now live on is the legal territory of the Salish and Kootnei nations. Just cause some European prick drew a line on a map and colored this part pink, it doesn't make it America, and it doesn't make me an American.
So what am I supposed to do? Go charging up to some government representative and tell him I don't want to be part of his gang? Clue phone. The government kills people. Innocent people. Lots of them and frequently. I'm not going to go marching up to some government thug and invite them to kidnap me, kick me off my land, imprison me, or kill me. So I leave them be and try to live my life the best I can. That doesn't make me an American and it darn sure doesn't mean that I'm going to go risk my neck for them when they decide to fight some other gang of criminals. If I'm going to be loyal to any nation it will be the Chickasaw, the Salish, or the Kootnei. The Americans can sod off. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
In the next draft, women will more than likely be drafted right along with the men, so a sex change operation won't really help. During WWII, the draft age went all the way up to 45 years old. I fear no one is safe from the next draft.
I doubt it. What do you do with children when you have drafted the father and the mother? As for single women... pregnancy isn't exactly hard to come by for most. What do you have left? Post menopausal women? I don't think they will make good soldiers but the ones in the menopausal transition would just be unfair and likely internationally outlawed. _________________ -Dac
Winners never quit and quiters never win, but those that never win and never quit are idiots.
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