[Food] Production - Greenhouses

Pops

The question of roofs and even overhangs depends on whether the room is used for anything other than a greenhouse I guess.

In my case I’m most concerned about keeping the temps above freezing with as little additional heat as possible in late winter/early spring. So we need to get as much light as we can to the north wall to heat those drums. As was said shade cloth could be used in summer.
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WisJim

Our greenhouse/sunroom is 14 feet deep (wide?)--anyway, it extends about 14 feet out from the south side of our house, and is 25 feet long, the length of the house (its an old square farmhouse). It has a low pitch sloping shingle roof with 2 skylights that can be opened. We put in the skylights for possible ventilation, and if I were to do it again I would not do the skylights. The floor is ceramic tile, a close out pattern, on a cement slab that has tubing for future radiant heat in the slab, and insulation under the slab. Ceiling has 10 inches of fiberglass batt insulation in 2 by 12 rafters. South wall is glass and some 4x4 posts between the glass, supporting the roof, end walls (east and west walls have some glass plus an operating tall casement window, and a door in the east end. Ceiling on the low side is about 8 feet, and about 14 feet on the high side. We sometimes get a bit of frost if it is cold and cloudy--and by cold I mean minus 40--for a couple of days, and then we might get down to freezing in a few spots in the room during the night. If the door to the house is left open, there is no chance of frost. It is a usable space for starting plants for the garden, overwintering some tomatoes and peppers and lettuce, etc., plus small citrus trees, and a nice place to sit on a sunny winter day.

frankthetank

Did you build that yourself? Why not skylights? Think they lose to much heat at night vs the gain?

We have a perfect setup to construct something like that. Sliding glass doors go out onto the deck on the south side of our house. There are some big trees about 25 feet out, but the sun still comes through very nicely.

We have a roof that overhangs the house by a good 18 inches or maybe more. I wonder if its just to keep the rain away from the foundation or does it serve some higher purpose?

skyemoor

Pops

Cool program! Lots of other nice time wasting toys there too, thanks. Although I couldn’t talk it into modeling my transparent roof, I can get an idea of whether to make the entire south slope open or not by viewing the wireframe – with a little more playing of course!

BTW I shortened your link Smile

Your greenhouse sounds great Jim, I’d love to have that setup, and our location would be perfect too.

Frank not only does the overhang protect the siding somewhat, in the summer it shades the wall and especially the windows but most importantly; gives you somewhere to hang your Christmas lights!
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WisJim

Pops

Maybe we could split out the pyramid power discussion to the Open forum?

It has nothing to do with greenhouses.
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uNkNowN ElEmEnt

Fait accompli, Monsieur Pops.

strider3700

As I've pointed out elsewhere I'm currently bringing home a freebie greenhouse
http://photos.impstar.com/index.php?album=%2Fstrider%2Fmisc%2F&image=1ab2.jpg
When I go to reassemble it I've got some questions about it's orientation.

The place that I'm thinking it will fit best would have it north/south on the long axis. I'm wondering if thats going to be a serious issue?

The building won't get any sun from mid november until early/mid february no matter where I place it in my yard. in early february though it will get a little bit of morning sun out of the east. This slowly increases until early april when it effectively will get sun all day other then a couple of hours where it is shaded. Jump ahead to mid may and it will ne partially shaded during the hottest hours of the day but still taking a ton of sunlight.

My hope is that with the green house I can get an early start on some of the tougher spring crops and also have somewhere for my seedlings to grow up. Lately I've been killing plants while attempting to harden them off after starting them indoors. It's either been too windy, too cold or too hot to take them outdoors. I didn't know that tomatoes could get sun burnt Wink

So anyways will the north/south orientation work ok? I'll be insulating the north side if it will. If I have to run east/west then the north side is a curved wall that I won't be insulating.

<edit> east west whats the difference Wink

</edit>
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nocar · Intermediate Crude Joined: Nov 05, 2004 Posts: 680

I have experience from my Greenhouse, about 2.5x3m, with 3 m on hte long axis. I also have no sun at all in winter, from middle october through early March, in fact. For me the long axis is oriented SE-NW. I am more north than you, in Stockholm Sweden which is just north of Anchorage ALaska.

I would not worry about the orientation of your greenhouse. Put it where it looks the best. Mine seems to heat up equally no matter where the sun stands. In summer, shade in the middle of the day is a good thing, as it easily gets hot even if you have automatic window openers (you'd better). I put in an extra window that is always open from June (a bit depending on the weather). Also the door is always open, I mean night and day, in summer. Ventilation is very important. Most greenhouse models that are sold seem to have too small openings. (they probable want to sell electric fans the next year)

I got plastic window panes, because I was told it would be better insulation. Even so, when the temperature drops at night in spring the greenhouse temperature becomes the same as the outdoor temp, so I could as well have had glass windows. Glass looks better (in my opinion) and it also lets in more light. You want big doors and big windows that open.

I always have to start my tomatoes indoors. The recommendation here is to harden them slowly over a period av two weeks before putting them outside. That does nto work for me. I put them out in hte greenhouse in early-middle May (when the risk of frost in the greenhouse is over). Then it takes them a month to adjust (they do not die but do nto grow either), then they start growing like mad. They have just started last week. If planted outside, I have to wait to early June. Then they still need a month until they start to grow. I get more green that red tomatoes.

Lettuce, radishes and peas can be started early (end of March) in my greenhouse. I put the earliest crops in containers, as the greenhouse soil is still too cold in March (it gets frozen in winter). From middle april I use the original soil in the greenhouse. Advertisemnets for greenhouses here often recommend that you cover the floor with tiles, and use big planters 'because it is easier to change the tired soil'. IMO, they just want to sell stuff. I treat the greenhouse soil just like the other veggie beds, lots of compost, cover wtih leaves in winter, crop rotation. In middle October I tear out all the plants. Beans, squash and tomatoe plants just grow mold a that time (remember, no more sun in my greenhouse)

nocar

mikeh433 · Heavy Crude Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 201

A basic "container" growing book I like is Incredible Vegetables from Self-Watering Containers, Ed Smith.

I have 2 improvements he doesn't have, though he has lots of experience:

1) Bury fish in soil.

2) Self watering container I do by drilling holes about 1/2 inch from ordinary plastic pot bottom (around sides) and place pot in "clear box" (translucent plastic tub container). Put water is in clear box and pot sits in water (if going away for a week, maybe fill up more water than normal).

A glance instantly shows which plants using water the fastest and if it needs water. This allows watering once or twice a week, instead of daily and the plant does better as it never dries out.

Simple, cheap, easy. And as Ed points out, if self watering, a plant can actually produce more than from the outdoor garden.

mikeh433 · Heavy Crude Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 201

Of course once you drill holes (small small holes) along the side bottom of planters, it won't be useful as a stand alone pot anymore, as it would leak water out the bottom sides. But being I don't like to have to water daily and I plan it as a production pot to always sit in a clear box with a couple inches of water in it, that's ok with me.

skyemoor

This site has a lot of the same ideas I've been mulling for an energy efficient greenhouse;
http://www.greenhousegarden.com/energy.htm
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dogf

For those of us living in the great white north...

Would those dwarf banana trees, lemon,lime, whatever be able to flourish in a greenhouse? I am just thinking when no oil, no bananas. If the roof was a high enough peak, the banana tree could grow 15-20 ft high? I just hate to think because one lives in Toronto, they will never see another tropical fruit again...

Loki · Expert Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1106 Location: Cascadia

I've heard of a couple people who grow bananas in greenhouses, both in Colorado. One is Avory Lovins (probably not a real popular guy here). Here's another guy who lives in the Colorado Rockies and grows bananas indoors during the winter. I think the latter has a greenhouse integrated into the actual house itself.