Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
HonestPessimist wrote:
It is pretty funny and very ironical that the radical anti-war folks screaming "No wars! No more deaths!" are the same kind of folks supporting abortion and birth control rights.
The only people who are supporting wars are people who have never been in a war. Abortion should be available to any women who wants one. The religious dogooders who want to force some woman to have a baby she never wanted are of course not going to be around to help the woman support said baby - now that is ironic and not very funny. Got a problem with birth control or is that your religious dogma getting in the way of reason?
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
HonestPessimist wrote:
It is pretty funny and very ironical that the radical anti-war folks screaming "No wars! No more deaths!" are the same kind of folks supporting abortion and birth control rights.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
Tyler_JC wrote:
Choosing a religion is not like buying a car. You don't really get to shop around for a better one. Most people are stuck with the religion of their parents. Maybe not most Europeans, but look at a country like the United States or any Latin American country. People don't change faiths very often.
If the Catholic Church changed its mind about birth control, countless millions of babies would suddenly not be born.
I agree. _________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
Joined: Dec 20, 2004 Posts: 890 Location: Scotland
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
cue the fascist anti-human population control police... who claim to be liberal but are in fact the worst fundamentalist totalitarian thinking people around.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
Tyler_JC wrote:
countless millions of babies would suddenly not be born.
I think it's the way you phrased the idea that made it sound so bizarre. Surely if they weren't born they would not have been babies in the first place, also it expresses the idea that those "potential babies" had the right to exist and by taking precautions you committed murder.
If you said "there would be a drop/discontinuety in the birth rate" it would make more sense. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
Wildwell wrote:
"
"Lord Jesus, open our eyes, let us see the filth around us for what it is."
He's right, let's face it. He didn't need to use the words, 'Lord Jesus' - he could just have said 'Oh True Me'.
Let's see it, look what we are and what we've done.
All we care about is the next beer, joint, car, fix or wank and Fark the planet and the poorer antions and people..gimme gimme gimme
Joined: Dec 20, 2004 Posts: 890 Location: Scotland
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
the pope is spot on with his speech.
capitalism has been embraced by the west and is the reason for the break up of social/family structures, because people are reduced to individuals all competing for money. capitalism is designed to destroy families, because a family distorts the 'market'.
what i find fascinating is that many christians whole heartedly embrace capitalism and seem to have the ability of compartmentalising their religion into a neat little 'i go to mass on a sunday' box, and then simply go about their everyday life as normal.
there are many christians who actually completely ignore the parts of the bible that interfere with their acquisition of goods - such as the story of the rich young man who was asked to give his belongings away, but couldnt bring himself to do it - then jesus said 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the kingdom of god'.
Of course, this is one of those uncomfortable teachings of jesus that is swept under the carpet by most christians as they salivate over their next purchase/holiday etc.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
okek wrote:
How so? When did it become the RCC's responsibility to control the world's population? Joining is voluntary and it's doctrine isn't exactly a secret. If you disagree with it's teachings, don't join! But don't blame it for stating it's position just because you don't agree with it.
So by this reasoning we shouldn't criticise the KKK for inflaming racist sentiment, since we don't have to belong to it.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
bobcousins wrote:
Who is trying to eliminate the family?
Why they give the job to the guy just turning senile I've no idea
The answer to the first part is Satan. So many people these days seem to forget that he is real. Satan seizes the proclivities of mankind and turns them to his end. And, no doubt about it, the traditional Christian family is one of the strongest bulwarks against Satan, as it provides a real model of the triumph of faith, hope and charity over our base instincts to those fortunate enough to be raised in this mold.
The answer to the second question is Huh? Benedict doesn't seem senile to me. He is pretty sharp upstairs. Would you say the same about Jimmy Carter, who is even older, but seems possessed of much more wisdom than Geoge Bush, who is younger?
There is a whole section in the Catholic Catechism regarding the prominent role and purpose of the family in God's creation:
"I. The Family in God's Plan
The nature of the family
Article 2201:
The conjugal community is established upon the consent of the spouses. Marriage and the family are ordered to the good of the spouses and to the procreation and education of children. The love of the spouses and the begetting of children create among members of the same family personal relationships and primordial responsibilities.
Article 2202:
A man and a woman united in marriage, together with their children, form a family. This institution is prior to any recognition by public authority, which has an obligation to recognize it. It should be considered the normal reference point by which the different forms of family relationship are to be evaluated.
Article 2203:
In creating man and woman, God instituted the human family and endowed it with its fundamental constitution. Its members are persons equal in dignity. For the common good of its members and of society, the family necessarily has manifold responsibilities, rights, and duties.
Article 2204:
The Christian family constitutes a specific revelation and realization of ecclesial communion, and for this reason it can and should be called a domestic church." It is a community of faith, hope, and charity; it assumes singular importance in the Church, as is evident in the New Testament.
Artricle 2205:
The Christian family is a communion of persons, a sign and image of the communion of the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit. In the procreation and education of children it reflects the Father's work of creation. It is called to partake of the prayer and sacrifice of Christ. Daily prayer and the reading of the Word of God strengthen it in charity. The Christian family has an evangelizing and missionary task.
Article 2206:
The relationships within the family bring an affinity of feelings, affections and interests, arising above all from the members' respect for one another. The family is a privileged community called to achieve a "sharing of thought and common deliberation by the spouses as well as their eager cooperation as parents in the children's upbringing."11
Article 2207:
The family is the original cell of social life. It is the natural society in which husband and wife are called to give themselves in love and in the gift of life. Authority, stability, and a life of relationships within the family constitute the foundations for freedom, security, and fraternity within society. The family is the community in which, from childhood, one can learn moral values, begin to honor God, and make good use of freedom. Family life is an initiation into life in society.
Article 2208:
The family should live in such a way that its members learn to care and take responsibility for the young, the old, the sick, the handicapped, and the poor. There are many families who are at times incapable of providing this help. It devolves then on other persons, other families, and, in a subsidiary way, society to provide for their needs: "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
linlithgowoil wrote:
the pope is spot on with his speech.
capitalism has been embraced by the west and is the reason for the break up of social/family structures, because people are reduced to individuals all competing for money. capitalism is designed to destroy families, because a family distorts the 'market'.
what i find fascinating is that many christians whole heartedly embrace capitalism and seem to have the ability of compartmentalising their religion into a neat little 'i go to mass on a sunday' box, and then simply go about their everyday life as normal.
there are many christians who actually completely ignore the parts of the bible that interfere with their acquisition of goods - such as the story of the rich young man who was asked to give his belongings away, but couldnt bring himself to do it - then jesus said 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the kingdom of god'.
Of course, this is one of those uncomfortable teachings of jesus that is swept under the carpet by most christians as they salivate over their next purchase/holiday etc.
Very True. I always find it ironic how the right wing Christians (like Bush) latches on to this Good v Evil idea when talking about terrorism and the Middle East. While no one can over condone violence against innocent people in the shape of terrorist attack, the route of the problem is, without doubt, much of the East sees the West as decadent and more interested in what car the neighbour has got rather than the neighbour themselves. They are the ones that tend to suffer, and continuous War only makes it worse.
Capitalism, without doubt, turns everyone into competing individuals and more importantly sophisticated consumers – although the tactics used by advertisers are becoming less sophisticated. Some recent McDonalds adverts spring to mind. In short there’s nothing wrong with consuming, it’s when one is consuming for the hell of it, especially when it’s a ‘statement’ or to extol ‘shame’ on other people. We all need shirts for our backs, but it’s when it becomes a necessity to have 3 times the shirts we need, with a label as a wealth statement. Same with large cars when there is the international emergency of climate change, 6 vacations a year. That’s just - unbridled, unsophisticated, mindless, selfish consumption.
The right wing Christians don’t seem to get that very often their country is benefiting from a social or economic arrangement at the expense of another nation, in other words they are the route of the problem because of their lifestyle values. Someone said on another thread ‘Why be afraid?’. If these people really believe what they preach I’d be very afraid indeed.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
Kickinthegob wrote:
HonestPessimist wrote:
It is pretty funny and very ironical that the radical anti-war folks screaming "No wars! No more deaths!" are the same kind of folks supporting abortion and birth control rights.
The only people who are supporting wars are people who have never been in a war. Abortion should be available to any women who wants one. The religious dogooders who want to force some woman to have a baby she never wanted are of course not going to be around to help the woman support said baby - now that is ironic and not very funny. Got a problem with birth control or is that your religious dogma getting in the way of reason?
Worldwide, abortion killed more babies than all of wars does to peoples combined in the past century.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
HonestPessimist wrote:
Worldwide, abortion killed more babies than all of wars does to peoples combined in the past century.
How about compare it with deaths due to motor vehicle accidents and tobacco..... _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
Wildwell wrote:
I always find it ironic how the right wing Christians (like Bush) latches on to this Good v Evil idea when talking about terrorism and the Middle East.
That has got to be the most flimsiest, absurd conclusion I've ever read on this side of the planet. It's utterly and so simply juvenile, you're just saying it straight out of a comic book story for kids.
Wildwell wrote:
The right wing Christians don’t seem to get that very often their country is benefiting from a social or economic arrangement at the expense of another nation, in other words they are the route of the problem because of their lifestyle values. Someone said on another thread ‘Why be afraid?’. If these people really believe what they preach I’d be very afraid indeed.
The left wing secular Liberals don’t seem to get that very often their country is benefiting from a social or economic arrangement at the expense of another nation, in other words they are the route of the problem because of their lifestyle values. Someone said on another thread ‘Why be afraid?’. If these people really believe what they preach I’d be very afraid indeed.
There, I just changed the words of "right wing Christians" to the left wing Liberals to reflect the same conclusion devoted Christians have toward secular, godless leftists.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
rogerhb wrote:
HonestPessimist wrote:
Worldwide, abortion killed more babies than all of wars does to peoples combined in the past century.
How about compare it with deaths due to motor vehicle accidents and tobacco.....
Huh? The difference between that is motor vehicle accidents are the result of poor or thoughtless decisions/actions done by the drivers. The same is true for people dying or died from tobacco cancer (they knew the risk and paid for it).
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Pope condemns mindless consumption and declining standar
HonestPessimist wrote:
Wildwell wrote:
I always find it ironic how the right wing Christians (like Bush) latches on to this Good v Evil idea when talking about terrorism and the Middle East.
That has got to be the most flimsiest (sic), absurd conclusion I've ever read on this side of the planet. It's utterly and so simply juvenile, you're just saying it straight out of a comic book story for kids.
How do you come to this flimsy, absurd conclusion? Have you forgotten Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech?
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