Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2754 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Quote:
AS the use of nuclear power expands, it will become increasingly ineffective at combating global warming, warns a report by an independent think tank published today .
The Oxford Research Group argues that a worldwide shortage of high- grade uranium ore will force new nuclear reactors to exploit increasingly lower-grade ores for their fuel. Because that requires more energy to extract, the process will result in ever-greater amounts of climate-wrecking pollution.
A report by the Dutch nuclear expert Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen says that, after 2034, the grade of uranium ore being dug out of the ground will fall dramatically. “This will cause nuclear power to become increasingly inefficient and expensive, leading to an increase in carbon dioxide emissions,” he says.
sundayherald _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
But I don't know anything about fast breeders or Accelerator Driven System (ADS) based on thorium to comment further.
Quote:
At the same time, G8 leaders are proposing to bring back fast breeder reactors, which were scrapped in Germany, France and the UK in the 1990s because they were too expensive. They are designed to create and burn plutonium and are much less reliant on imports of uranium.
The leaked action plan says: “A significant step in promotion of self- sustainable nuclear power would be attained through the development of innovative nuclear power systems based on closed nuclear fuel cycles with fast neutron reactors.”
Just maybe the G8 are onto something. . _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Graeme wrote:
A report by the Dutch nuclear expert Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen says that, after 2034, the grade of uranium ore being dug out of the ground will fall dramatically.
Oh man ... the van der Luddite propaganda lives on _________________ "Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6755 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
EnergySpin wrote:
Oh man ... the van der Luddite propaganda lives on.
Where, exactly, is all this high-grade ore that you think exists? _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Jack wrote:
Well! It looks as if nuclear won't save the easy motoring lifestyle after all.
Not that any doomer worthy of his MREs thought it would....
Don't worry.
Fast breeder technology is likely to establish itself by 2030.
Japaneese are now about to reopen their Monyo facility for example.
We also have thorium cycle.
Sure. That should keep those three thousand mile salads rolling.
As peak hits, it should be simplicity itself to scale up nuclear production to take the place of fossil fuels. No problem at all.
By the way - how is it that one can predict which technologies will develop a quarter-century hence? You see, I'd really like to know so I can invest in them. Get in on the ground floor, so to speak.
Why shouldn't I just invest in controlled fusion? It's supposed to be going nicely by 2030 or so...
But, then again, zero-point energy (whatever THAT is!), is also supposed to save us all.
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Zardoz wrote:
EnergySpin wrote:
Oh man ... the van der Luddite propaganda lives on.
Where, exactly, is all this high-grade ore that you think exists?
Fact 1: Uranium is one of the most common metals on earth
Fact 2: If you do the math, the energy profitability of uranium mining is significantly positive for granites (conc 10-20 ppm). For "softer" sources the EROEI is positive (or over unity depending on how you want to do the energy budget) for more diffuse sources. Such sources include the phosphoric rocks, and even the seawater
Fact 3: RTFM ... but it is easier to bitch and moan than exercise critical thinking _________________ "Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
EnergySpin wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
EnergySpin wrote:
Oh man ... the van der Luddite propaganda lives on.
Where, exactly, is all this high-grade ore that you think exists?
Fact 1: Uranium is one of the most common metals on earth
Fact 2: If you do the math, the energy profitability of uranium mining is significantly positive for granites (conc 10-20 ppm). For "softer" sources the EROEI is positive (or over unity depending on how you want to do the energy budget) for more diffuse sources. Such sources include the phosphoric rocks, and even the seawater
Fact 3: RTFM ... but it is easier to bitch and moan than exercise critical thinking
Fact 1: Really? LINK This referenced site seems to indicate otherwise.
Fact 2: I see. We're going to have eternal energy - eternal, ever-expanding energy - because we can extract all we want from seawater. Isn't it odd that uranium prices continue in an uptrend? How foolish they are! They could get all they want from the sea. Sorry, but I have real doubts about the viability of the scheme.
Fact 3: And easier still to believe in ever-expanding energy supplies.
Still, don't let me discourage you. After all, the last-ditch investment in nuclear energy will make the crash harder. That ain't necessarily a bad thing. _________________ Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn!
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Jack wrote:
Fact 1: Really? LINK This referenced site seems to indicate otherwise.
I wrote metals not chemical elements. There is a big difference you know ...
According to Cameco
Quote:
Uranium is one of the more common elements in the Earth's crust - it is more common than tin, about 40 times more common than silver and 500 times more common than gold.
It might seem like semantics to you, but I'm sure you never took an inorganic chemistry class in your life
Jack wrote:
Fact 2: I see. We're going to have eternal energy - eternal, ever-expanding energy - because we can extract all we want from seawater. Isn't it odd that uranium prices continue in an uptrend? How foolish they are! They could get all they want from the sea. Sorry, but I have real doubts about the viability of the scheme.
Phosphoric rocks, coal deposits and shales will be the first targets .... again I presume you took no surface chemistry courses in your lifelong education, but it appears that in the 70s (before the collapse of the price of Uranium), they were being extracted from such sources. The technology has been there for at least 30 years. The seawater front is an interesting one ... if you behave I might give you a traders secret about it , but then I might not
Jack wrote:
Fact 3: And easier still to believe in ever-expanding energy supplies.
Takes time to read up on the stuff ... it is easier to believe in death cults. _________________ "Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
[quote="EnergySpin"]
I wrote metals not chemical elements. There is a big difference you know ...
According to Cameco
Quote:
Uranium is one of the more common elements in the Earth's crust - it is more common than tin, about 40 times more common than silver and 500 times more common than gold.
Please note that our references differ.
EnergySpin wrote:
It might seem like semantics to you, but I'm sure you never took an inorganic chemistry class in your life
Absolutely true. I never took an inorganic chemistry class. Instead, I took a CLEP test in the subject and passed same - so I could take an organic chemistry class with a particularly good professor.
EnergySpin wrote:
Phosphoric rocks, coal deposits and shales will be the first targets .... again I presume you took no surface chemistry courses in your lifelong education, but it appears that in the 70s (before the collapse of the price of Uranium), they were being extracted from such sources. The technology has been there for at least 30 years. The seawater front is an interesting one ... if you behave I might give you a traders secret about it , but then I might not
Hmm. Reference, please?
At 4 ppm in granite...that is correct, is it not?...the energy costs to extract it must be significant. Likewise for seawater at 1.3 ppb.
EnergySpin wrote:
Takes time to read up on the stuff ... it is easier to believe in death cults.
Do the laws of supply and demand apply to the nuclear fuel market? _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Lower grade uranium could hasten climate change pace
Jack wrote:
Please note that our references differ.
I did notice that ... and I also noticed that your reference suggests we should go after hydrogen because it is so abundant in the earth crust
You could also try the USGS geologic survey to locate more info about the relative availability of metals. IIRC Uranium ranks #13 ....
Jack wrote:
Hmm. Reference, please?
Man how many times do I have to post the same stuff ?
In any case, the antinuclear WISE project has the info for you ...
http://www.wise-uranium.org/purec.html
8 plants were built and operated in the USA during the 70s but were subsequently closed when the price of the ore collapsed ...
Happy reading ... since you took the CLEP you can navigate through the page.
Regarding the energy costs ... I refuse to re-iterate the same stuff that has been written again and again; you may use the search button.
But the Japanese are going full steam with the seawater stuff ... the y filed (and were awarded a patent) a couple of years ago. A spin-off company was also formed 18 months ago....
I presume this is not useful info for MRE fanatics _________________ "Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
"There is enough usable uranium ore in the ground to sustain the present trivial rate of consumption - a mere 2-1/2 percent of all the world's final energy demand - and to fulfill its waste-management obligations, for around 45 years. However, to make a difference - to make a real contribution to postponing or mitigating the coming energy winter - nuclear energy would have to supply the energy needed for (say) the whole of the world's electricity supply. It could do so - but there are deep uncertainties as to how long this could be sustained.
"The best estimate (pretending for a moment that all the needed nuclear power stations could be built at the same time and without delay) is that the global demand for electricity could be supplied from nuclear power for about six years, with margins for error of about two years either way."
Jack, where can we find the best prices on MREs these days? _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
