After reading all of this, I'm surely glad that
1) I live in Kansas
2) I have 500 acres in Nebraska
3) I dont have to deal with the already Gestapo state of Kalifornia.
To whom it may concern for these blessings......Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you....... :D
After reading all of this, I'm surely glad that
1) I live in Kansas
2) I have 500 acres in Nebraska
3) I dont have to deal with the already Gestapo state of Kalifornia.
To whom it may concern for these blessings......Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you....... :D
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:46 am Post subject:
This is good; it looks like we're going to have at least one west coast nexus and one midwestern nexus. Now we need another one in the northeast and one in the southeast and those should be sufficient to provide information to others who try this later.
I'd recommend that once you get your groups defined, you ask the moderators to remove any posts that have to do with location. It looks like there are a lot of people out there who would prefer to hold off on preparations with the assumption that they will be able to take your nest egg out from under you...
Joined: Aug 24, 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject:
Thats a good point Mark. Even without mention of locations here, however, refugees are likely to be an issue in all but the most isolated of places. Some of these will undoubtably be armed and these could prove difficult to deal with.
Some things to consider-
Locating communities to take advantage of natural barriers- rivers, mountains, a peninsula, perhaps augmented with fences and walls though man made barriers will require time, energy and money whereas the passive natural barriers can come easy and cheap if we plan ahead
It would be advantageous to have the homesteads close to one another, ideally in plain sight to assist in mutual defense
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:14 am Post subject:
MarkL: yes, agreed about not disclosing location. Note that our group is not saying anything more specific than county.
Ian: Plain sight is also good for reasons of cost of infrastructure. Distance between houses translates to increased cost for common utilities.
Though, plain sight isn't much help if a problem sneaks up on you and the folks who can see your place are asleep. For this you need telephones. Which our community will have, with 100% certainty, since that's what I do for a living. In fact we will have state-of-the-art telephone & internet facilities.
(Note: radios aren't sufficient, they can be intercepted by hostiles and will also give away your location. You need wireline communications.)
Any community that's forming and wants to run its own telephone service, is welcome to contact me for design consultation.
What about frequency hopping radios. What time scale are you all thinking about. Anyway, I have a 30 ft boat so if all hell breaks loose here. I'm going fishing. Might pop over to you survivors for a holiday post peak. If I make it across the Atlantic - it should only take 3 weeks or so. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 975 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:06 am Post subject: The Haven TV series about Findhorn Community
UK TV Channel 4 has just started showing a series called "The Haven"; a documentary about the UK's oldest alternative community, situated in a breathtakingly beautiful part of Scotland.
Given how depressing the PO future might be, it was refreshing to see a fully-functional alternative, sustainable community working. There's a lot of vague New Agey antics about Findhorn, some of them seemed IMO rather ludicrous, but there is also a lot of positive communal sharing. Findhorn seemed a lovely place anyway - I was tempted to sign up for a week-long working visit (GBP 330 gets you a stay, you may work in the famous gardens, and farms, or possibly end up cleaning the toilets, as well as participating the community life).
It isn't apparent how self-sufficient Findhorn is, maybe later episodes will make that clear: they do generate their own power and grow their own food. If you live and work there the wage is apparently GBP200 (US$360) per month, not much but certainly enough for a post-peak lifestyle. There seemed to be many compensations that far outweighed the loss of useless gadgets and consumerism. I got the impression that one of the residents, a graphic designer, was telecommuting to work on orthodox projects.
Findhorn is accepting of all faiths and none, so you don't necessarily have to be a fully fledged tree hugger (yes, some of them do actually hug trees). A ghastly authoritarian Guru came to visit with intentions to mount an alternative spiritual Coup d'Etat; the Findhorn community simply blew him away with vague positiveness. Hilarious to watch.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the series. I expect it will appear on cable eventually so you can all take a look: The Haven.
Freud and TreuK - Your posts appear to be speaking of your conditioned expectations of your own conduct under duress, not of the people of Findhorn.
The founders of that community were some of the most insightful and creative people I've known in several decades of adult life.
You might care to consider just how rare are communities where people are respected for their inner strengths, such as compassion and humour, rather than merely for abiding by a particular creed or ideology ?
While Findhorn doesn't aim to produce much to sell elsewhere, it does accomodate and feed large numbers of visitors each year, for whom its exceptional way of life allows novel perspectives and understanding to flourish.
Its further focus on contributing to the society at large is through conferences on leading-edge issues, for which it attracts outstanding speakers. For example, their recent Conference on the Climate atracted the internationally renowned director of Global Commons Institute, Aubrey Meyer, as the keynote speaker.
It's certainly not a way of life to suit everyone (personally I keep hunting dogs) but then what is ? I think if you're wise you'll maybe go and visit it some day and see for yourself, rather than merely dismissing it by conditioned reflex.
Freud and TreuK - Your posts appear to be speaking of your conditioned expectations of your own conduct under duress, not of the people of Findhorn.
The founders of that community were some of the most insightful and creative people I've known in several decades of adult life.
You might care to consider just how rare are communities where people are respected for their inner strengths, such as compassion and humour, rather than merely for abiding by a particular creed or ideology ?
While Findhorn doesn't aim to produce much to sell elsewhere, it does accomodate and feed large numbers of visitors each year, for whom its exceptional way of life allows novel perspectives and understanding to flourish.
Its further focus on contributing to the society at large is through conferences on leading-edge issues, for which it attracts outstanding speakers. For example, their recent Conference on the Climate atracted the internationally renowned director of Global Commons Institute, Aubrey Meyer, as the keynote speaker.
It's certainly not a way of life to suit everyone (personally I keep hunting dogs) but then what is ? I think if you're wise you'll maybe go and visit it some day and see for yourself, rather than merely dismissing it by conditioned reflex.
regards,
Backstop
I've visited similar places before and the levels of self delusional bullshit these imaginations produce is far beyond my tolerance levels.
Of course, they would have something good about their community... and course there would be something bad.... no humans escape the dilemma of humanity.
Don't you think that there are Amish cruising around Shipshewanna at this very moment doing coke and prostituting themselves out?
There are.... It's been a problem in that community for over a decade now.
You might say, "hey exactly my point... they subscribe to a creed, that's different" and you'd be wrong.
They've subscribed to an experiment/ and or flashback in socialisation.
And we've thousands of years of history to see what happens when groups congregate for humanity's sake.
Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject:
Well Guys it will be interesting........
I take it you have seen the graph, probably in some of the Simmons material that shows the decline of human and animal labour over the past 150 years - to much less than 1% of all work done!!!!!!!!!
Zero point for oil and gas production in the whole world will be in 30 years unless the everlasting depression knocks consumption back significantly - but zero point for oil in Australia is 4 years off and the US both oil and gas within 10 years.....
No one will think the Amish lifestyle an experiment - it will be idealised as a life of plenty and ease!!! (Who else can grow a surplus for sale without diesel fuel!)
The folk at Findhorn who have trained many to grow food with hand tools, will be toasted and blessed as they have provided a means of sustenance..
And more importantlty...the way they show for people to get off their left brained - testosterone fueled - bull dozer ride that is bringing planetary life into jeapardy - witnessed by Global Pollution, Greenhouse Effect and Unsustainable Ecological Footprints.
Get a reality check folks - look at the graph - and work out how to clothe, feed and shelter you and yours without the big blue bit.........
Sololeum,
Change bankruptcy laws so you don't lose your house when you lose the job that depends on oil.....
I take it you have seen the graph, probably in some of the Simmons material that shows the decline of human and animal labour over the past 150 years - to much less than 1% of all work done!!!!!!!!!
Zero point for oil and gas production in the whole world will be in 30 years unless the everlasting depression knocks consumption back significantly - but zero point for oil in Australia is 4 years off and the US both oil and gas within 10 years.....
No one will think the Amish lifestyle an experiment - it will be idealised as a life of plenty and ease!!! (Who else can grow a surplus for sale without diesel fuel!)
The folk at Findhorn who have trained many to grow food with hand tools, will be toasted and blessed as they have provided a means of sustenance..
And more importantlty...the way they show for people to get off their left brained - testosterone fueled - bull dozer ride that is bringing planetary life into jeapardy - witnessed by Global Pollution, Greenhouse Effect and Unsustainable Ecological Footprints.
Get a reality check folks - look at the graph - and work out how to clothe, feed and shelter you and yours without the big blue bit.........
Sololeum,
Change bankruptcy laws so you don't lose your house when you lose the job that depends on oil.....
I spent two years of my life working with the Amish.... if you think they'll cope far better than the rest of us, you have a rude awakening.
They don't have power in their houses.......... but their workshops have every imaginable electrical good you could be jealous over.
They don't have mains water, but they have reverse cycle diesel pressure tanks keeping a steady flow to either their houses, or doorsteps to their houses at all times. Ironically, the same power which drives their workshops... (technicality allows them the benefits of both)
(I had to marvel though...off topic, at brand new detroit diesel semi engines mounted in new concreted pole barns and humming away like nothing was amiss)
They don't have telephones in their houses.... you'd have to walk out to the telephone shack to make your call.
They don't have cars, they don't fly very often...... but they do contract out taxi services from the local gentile population and have a wide range of travel if needed to get their persons and goods for sale where they need to be.
They use modern vetrinarian drugs, modern health services, modern banking....
That's just the short list..... They're us with a dash of attitude and a change of fashion, and a lot of traditional values.... at least on the surface.
But they do have one thing......... they'll find it easier to make due without...emotionally if nothing else...they have their communities.
The Findhorn people don't have that benefit... like every other modern derived commune, they have 20th century baggage and placid times theory....
packaged into a palatable floral arrangement in times of peace, and highly likely to wilt in times of need. War and calamity have been non-existant in the past for these types, but they still fail. Ask yourself why.
Nevermind... it would be peace time theory.
Like enviromental pollution issues are waged by certain people that have a convenient differentiation between volcanic CFC emissions of one eruption NOT comparing to over a hundred years of industrial complex emission.
Mother Earth...mother earth can do no wrong...... crucify the humans!
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