Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
I've seen a programme with this name.
Those potentially interested in picking up this dvd/torrent should be aware that:
a) its old and quite a bit out of date. None of the actions of Dubya in giving tax cuts to the wealthy are here for example.
b) the last quarter is taken over by the god squad - trying to spread their message under the cover of a programme on finance . They don't seem to mention that those that can't balance a budget all claim to be good christians.
Probably worth missing, there are other books etc. that cover the US deficit and the consequences of the demographic timebomb in much greater detail; and without the overt indoctination message. _________________ Arcane Domain
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6158 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Lighthouse wrote:
Heineken wrote:
rogerhb wrote:
americandream wrote:
has it ever occurred to anyone of you critters that all this "high brow" witticism does the objective of this site a huge disservice.
And you shouldn't start sentences with and.
Just FYI: It's a myth that sentences should never start with "and." Great literature (including the Bible, I believe) is replete with such sentences. (However, words referred to as words [such as "and" in your comment] should be in quotation marks or italics.)
Unfortunately the print run of a book has no relation to it's literary quality. The bible is nothing more than a collection of badly written short stories.
Starting a sentence with "and" or any other of the 7 conjunctions is not an easy task. Most writers try to avoid it (not Micky Spillane as far as I remember ...) Starting a sentence with a conjunction would make ones writing thoroughly monotonous. And one would probably not want to use such a construction in very formal contexts.
You're wrong. Not just the Bible is full of such sentences, but plenty if not most of great modern literature, including the works of Hemingway. I have a B.A. in English, worked for 27 years as an editor, and hold an advanced certification in manuscript editing.
Here's one example, out of countless thousands, of a great author beginning a sentence with "and":
"And first, before we begin the history of life, let us tell something of the stage upon which our drama is put and of the background against which it is played."
-- H. G. Wells, Outline of History
first sentence of the entire book!
Using a conjunction at the start of the sentence may affect the meaning in a desired way or be done for emphasis or artistic effect (as, for example, in the works of Edgar Allan Poe ["And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay"]). Ain't NOTHING wrong with it, as long as it fits the situation! Of course, that's not to say that there are aren't plenty of sentences that should not begin with a conjunction. It all depends. But simply declaring that no sentence should begin with a conjunction is absurd.
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but few if any of us schooled in this sort of esoterica would agree with it. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Heineken wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Heineken wrote:
rogerhb wrote:
americandream wrote:
has it ever occurred to anyone of you critters that all this "high brow" witticism does the objective of this site a huge disservice.
And you shouldn't start sentences with and.
Just FYI: It's a myth that sentences should never start with "and." Great literature (including the Bible, I believe) is replete with such sentences. (However, words referred to as words [such as "and" in your comment] should be in quotation marks or italics.)
Unfortunately the print run of a book has no relation to it's literary quality. The bible is nothing more than a collection of badly written short stories.
Starting a sentence with "and" or any other of the 7 conjunctions is not an easy task. Most writers try to avoid it (not Micky Spillane as far as I remember ...) Starting a sentence with a conjunction would make ones writing thoroughly monotonous. And one would probably not want to use such a construction in very formal contexts.
You're wrong. Not just the Bible is full of such sentences, but plenty if not most of great modern literature, including the works of Hemingway. I have a B.A. in English, worked for 27 years as an editor, and hold an advanced certification in manuscript editing.
Here's one example, out of countless thousands, of a great author beginning a sentence with "and":
"And first, before we begin the history of life, let us tell something of the stage upon which our drama is put and of the background against which it is played."
-- H. G. Wells, Outline of History
first sentence of the entire book!
Using a conjunction at the start of the sentence may affect the meaning in a desired way or be done for emphasis or artistic effect (as, for example, in the works of Edgar Allan Poe). Ain't NOTHING wrong with it, as long as it fits the situation!
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but few if any of us schooled in this sort of esoterica would agree with it.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
garyp wrote:
They don't seem to mention that those that can't balance a budget all claim to be good christians.
...and are warmongers. Apparently following Christ's teachings is not required in order to call yourself Christian. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
MacG wrote:
Game, set and match.
I don't think so
Heineken wrote:
...
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but few if any of us schooled in this sort of esoterica would agree with it.
Well, it seems that you should go back to school again.
You call yourself an experienced editor and you are unable to comprehend a couple of simple sentences?
Where did I say one should not start a sentence with one of the conjunctions?
As a matter of fact it was rogerhb who said that. And as far as I understand he meant it in a very sarcastic way.
But I said it's not an easy task and requires skill (which Spillane did not have — he got it wrong half of the time). And I said using this style of writing to often would make a text very monotonous. Again, it requires skill to use it.
I also said even the bible is literature, it's not well written and nothing more than a collection of short stories, a badly written anthology so to speak.
PS: I usually spend hours on skype discussing this crap with my editor, which is similar in German grammar. But I have to admit she is 85% right with her remarks... _________________ I am a sarcastic cynic. Some say I'm an asshole. Now that we have that out of the way ...
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Lighthouse wrote:
As a matter of fact it was rogerhb who said that. And as far as I understand he meant it in a very sarcastic way.
Absolutely.
And I was amazed at the torrent it triggered! _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4422 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Collapse of America
The Code of Conduct strongly suggests that a thread should at least appear to stay on topic for longer than say, 2 posts.
If we want to talk about the grammer rules, we can create a thread called, "Grammer Rules". Then I can move all of the wonderful grammer fights into that thread from now on.
If we do not want to create a new and amazingly exciting thread on the proper use of contractions...we should probably start talking about that video. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6158 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Lighthouse wrote:
MacG wrote:
Game, set and match.
I don't think so
Heineken wrote:
...
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but few if any of us schooled in this sort of esoterica would agree with it.
Where did I say one should not start a sentence with one of the conjunctions?
As a matter of fact it was rogerhb who said that.
But I said it's not an easy task and requires skill. And I said using this style of writing to often would make a text very monotonous. Again, it requires skill to use it.
I was simultaneously responding to both roger's comments and yours. Sorry if this wasn't apparent.
The fact is that there is a mistaken notion out there that starting a sentence with a conjunction is somehow fundamentally suspect, and both roger's and your comments reflected that.
Using any stylistic device too much would be monotonous---so you don't have much of a point there.
And I don't see what's so particularly difficult about starting a sentence with a conjunction (there, I just did it. See how "And" contributes?). Yes, good writing takes skill---all aspects of it.
Moderator: Having defended myself, I'll do as you say now and drop this. Thanks for your indulgence. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Heineken you are right and we are wrong.
And are you happy now? And are you feeling better? And Satisfied?
And can we go back on topic now or do you still have the urge to defend yourself against ... what? _________________ I am a sarcastic cynic. Some say I'm an asshole. Now that we have that out of the way ...
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Dukat_Reloaded wrote:
[how debt is evil and against god, robs people of morals that you can get anything for nothing and not work. Gives tips on how to survive and how to work during the crash.
Debt is a tool - quite an effective tool. So is a chainsaw.
The use of debt for home mortgages, during a period of moderate interest rates and increasing housing prices, improved the U.S. economy and - arguably - global living standards.
If the future brings declining housing prices, then the tool will have caused injury - but it is not the tool, rather it is the misapplication of the tool that is the problem.
So debt is evil - if one's timing and strategy are wrong. And debt is good - if one is correct in one's choices.
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Chuckmak wrote:
huh? what? you on that heron again?
I'm afraid I'm going to have to call the Audubon Society about this... _________________ "It's not that hard times are coming, it's that soft times are going."
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Jack wrote:
What if inflation is high? Should one own dollars or owe them?
I do hope that question was rhetorical.
In theory owing is the best, but only if you have increasing income.
If you have inflation but no wage inflation, then things suck whatever you are doing, as you still have the debt and they will ramp up the interest rates to insane numbers. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
To the people who are arguing in this thread....to me propper grammer is nice but as long as the communication is expressed coherently using related words, the grammer is very very secondary. The way you people are arguing, it sounds like you've learn't skills watching reruns of fraiser, pretending to talk "witty" rather than having built real English skills though obtaining PHD's and teaching as you have claimed. _________________
Man's like a candle in a candlestick,
Made up of tallow and a little wick;
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6158 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Dukat_Reloaded wrote:
To the people who are arguing in this thread....to me propper grammer is nice but as long as the communication is expressed coherently using related words, the grammer is very very secondary. The way you people are arguing, it sounds like you've learn't skills watching reruns of fraiser, pretending to talk "witty" rather than having built real English skills though obtaining PHD's and teaching as you have claimed.
Skill in grammar (and all the other basic mechanics of writing) goes hand-in-hand with coherent communication, Dukat. It's folly to assert that any of the fundamentals of good writing don't matter to good written communication.
It's convenient to disparage good writing skills when one hasn't mastered them. I see this phenomenon all the time. Analogous would be someone who got F's in math saying math sucks and isn't really necessary or useful, or that it doesn't matter if you get the right answer or not. Granted, language is somewhat more forgiving than math.
To me the decline in writing skills parallels the failure of our educational systems and indeed the drunken reeling of our civilization. The same thing happened during the later years of the Roman Empire, when the bastardization of Latin was bemoaned by the scholars of the time. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6158 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Re: The Crash, The Coming Financial Colapse of America
Lighthouse wrote:
Heineken you are right and we are wrong.
And are you happy now? And are you feeling better? And Satisfied?
And can we go back on topic now or do you still have the urge to defend yourself against ... what?
Takes two to tango, Lighthouse. Still, I accept your rather backhanded peace gesture. Kind regards. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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. They don't seem to mention that those that can't balance a budget all claim to be good christians.
