Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
seahorse wrote:
Here's the direct link to the article "surviving peak oil on a limited budget."
Limited Budget Article
Quote:
This feeling of a need to buy stuff is in fact the very reason why we have this predicament. We over-consume. The preparation problem is not addressed by buying more stuff; it’s addressed by mentally and physically getting used to the idea of getting by on less stuff.
That quote should be plastered all over the place.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
MJ wrote:
I wonder, how can you prepare without sufficient money?
I mean, sure you can buy some books on sustainability and agriculture, but I read a lot of ppl here purchasing solar panels, buying land or foodstock, invest in commodities or move out the suburbs to the countryside. Those must be wealthy people. I have a house, which I have to pay for monthly, and I'm able to save a dime now and then, but I have nowhere near the means to install solar panels, not even a woodstove... I'm just wondering what would happen to ppl like me, who aren't poor, but aren't wealthy either.
Eggsactly! I love the response--"Get a job in the energy field, right away!" Yeah, right.
The most practical thing you can do on a tight budget is to buy some dehydrated food and stock up on things like basic medications, bleach for cleaning and disinfecting, etc... etc.. That will buy you time, if the shtf. Being able to make further plans, when you and your family aren't suffering from collective hypoglycemia, will be a real benefit. Truth is, noone knows exactly how this will shake out.
People who are ditching everything and moving out to the country may find the vegetables and fruit they are able to grow, in no way offset the cost of having to drive all over hell's half acre to purchase everything else they need. The run for the hills mentality, may be replaced by a run from the hills, for all we know. Plenty of extreme naivete on this board.
You could be farther ahead than all the computer cowboys who have just bought crappy, hard to irrigate land, in an isolated region, with zero social back up.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
All of this talk about relocating makes me wonder, how can one relocate if one doesn't have enough money to do it in the first place? I'd really like to but first I have to be able to afford a house somewhere, and more importantly be able to find work in the area that I want to move that can pay for all of this.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
rexxz wrote:
All of this talk about relocating makes me wonder, how can one relocate if one doesn't have enough money to do it in the first place? I'd really like to but first I have to be able to afford a house somewhere, and more importantly be able to find work in the area that I want to move that can pay for all of this.
True. You can get to know your neighbours by hosting an emergency preparedness night. Some local expert on earthquake, volcano, hurricane preparedness would probably welcome the chance to speak. You could extend the talk to peak oil preparedness. --people working collectively can accomplish so much more than those struggling alone. Social capital will be everything in the future.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 99 Location: outside of consensus reality
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
relocation with no money? well wait till the end of your lease (if you have a house that you OWN ie not pay the bank every month, then skip my post) to leave. plan for 6 months. eat ramen noodles and beans and rice. scavange everything when your not working. dumpster dive. hustle. sell off your electronics ect. go to the library for entertainment. buy a cheap crappy van using money you save/skimmed from your crappy 6$/hr job (mine was). buy some voodo special forces "camping gear" and a firearm for you and the girl (assuming here). save about 3 grand in cash and split it among you and the girl to keep in money belts next to the gun, on your persons at all times. set up a bed in the van and pick your location. being poor you dont have the option of buying property somewhere else outright ect, so pick a small to mid size city that enjoys some isolation from other urban areas. one without established suberbs would be ideal. pick one that never took off in the realestate boom. learn where the nat. parks are. learn what the cops are like there. visit the place in this six month period. if it looks corrupt or good ole boy then this is the place your looking for. easier to get hooked up and papered. then when the lease is up. pack it up and move there. live out of the van and camp in parks, wallmart parking lots (towards the back they allow it), side of the road in neighborhoods wherever. stay out of the bottle and away from the joint. these things bring trouble on the road. meet some other poor Fark like yourself and use their address for jobs and connections. get a tracfone so you can sound legit when you answer YOUR fone for that job interview. shower at nat parks. stay once or twice a week only to shower, relax, sneek a beer, do laundry ect. lay low. walk away from trouble. be a chameleon.
pick a good house to rent with good soil. wait to apply until the job situation is golden. pay the landlord up front everything you have left so you can pay 2-3 months in advance. pay your rent early each month and make your landlord your buddy. they like early money. keep going with your beans and rice. work your job and rebuild your empire. thats what i did two years ago. took us two weeks to get jobs and a house rented. our post peak situation is great now. we are both established and our organic garden is getting ready to expand into our neighbors yard (our landlord is moving the fense for us as he owns both properties. sure its not a recreational farm in montana but our population is under 100,000 and we are not in Richmond Va waiting for the dieoff/martial law.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6375 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
If you are barely getting by now, when energy is much more expensive you may not be getting by at all. Obviously there are two sides to one’s budget – income and expense, it doesn’t matter how little your expenses are if you don’t have any income.
I think it is very important to examine ones income prospects in light of high energy prices and the resulting across the board inflation. In our situation, we had planned to have our house paid off in ten years, but that relied on me making a boatload of money in graphics and advertising – both items heavily influenced by the overall economy. I had the feeling that especially in the commuter heavy area of Central CA where we lived that increasing fuel prices would first lead to a slump in the housing market and then to the entire local economy. A refi to a longer term mortgage didn’t seem wise either as just the cost of living out there is very high.
Anyway the decision was made to reduce our overhead dramatically and become less dependent on graphics as our sole source of income, the obvious course was to move to a less costly area and diversify our income. The economic worry was not the only factor but it was the largest. Now I won’t say a jump like we made was an easy decision and the distance we wound up moving away from family was large but we are very happy how it has turned out – in fact several relatives are seriously considering joining us out here.
Our timing turned out to be fine as our old place has probably dropped in value about as much as the new place cost – and the value of the new place is still rising by all accounts.
Making a change in job whether or not you change location is a big deal, I have bumped into the wage ceiling several times in my life and changed 'careers' – each time it was a couple steps back before moving forward again. This time I don’t expect to move forward as much as just keep up.
I think the suggestion to get a job in the energy sector is a good one. Of course there are many jobs related to energy that don’t require a masters degree in geology.
How about woodstove installer?
I think many folks' personal Armageddon is likely to show up as a pink slip in their pay envelope. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 269 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
Pops wrote:
I think many folks' personal Armageddon is likely to show up as a pink slip in their pay envelope.
This is an astute observation and deserves comment. Disaster may befall any of us at any time. We could lose our job. We could get an illness that not only costs us our job, but also our life savings. A fire or natural disaster could destroy all we have, including much PO preparations. It could be possible to find ourselves destitute, homeless, or near homeless.
For the Christians and their belief of a Rapture, your death could come at any moment and requires no signs or fulfilment of prophecy. As the Bible says, the rain falls and the sun shines upon the just and the unjust. What goes around may come around, but many people get what they do not deserve. Also in the Bible is the story about the man who tears down his barns to build bigger and greater ones, only to find that his life will be required of him, putting an end to his grandiose plans. We must find a balance between preparing for post PO and enjoying the good life that is still available to many of us.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
to ensure survival, you probably need to purchase resources and contract labour that will cost you in the several millions - if you truly want a happy life in a mad max world that matches your current quality of life. (I am assuming here that quality of life can only be maintained by keeping up present consumption - this is debatable)
you need to develop a unique plan that accounts for all aspects, from personal nutritional needs to how much natural gas you must stockpile. If you want kids then this planning can become very tough. You have to design your own low-energy house and method of growing produce. This means you need to know a ton of chemistry, biology, math and physics first. You even need to account for the effect of global warming on your location in 10-50 years.
the only way you can acquire such money in time is probably to steal it, unless you have the knowledge to obtain it otherwise.
in other words, unless you are superrich, you basically can't prepare. The resources you need are unobtainable. Even the acquisition of the prerequisite knowledge you need will take too much time.
of course if you were working with 10 other people who have knowledge in specific areas that are relevant, and are willing to pool their assets, you could probably pull it off. But I am finding it impossible to find people with the required money/skills that are willing to participate in a co-op project due to disbelief of the Olduvai theory.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
ajwald wrote:
of course if you were working with 10 other people who have knowledge in specific areas that are relevant, and are willing to pool their assets, you could probably pull it off. But I am finding it impossible to find people with the required money/skills that are willing to participate in a co-op project due to disbelief of the Olduvai theory.
I don't see any point in preparing for the worst case scenario. First, because you don't know if it will get to be as bad. Second, and more important, because before the worst case scenario happens, a lot of things will happen before. And many of them could screw your survivalist plans.
I expect that much before things get into survivalist mode, there will be a huge economic crash. I suggest that you prepare for an economic crash, and after you've sucessfully dealt with it, prepare for the next stage.
And why try to survive on your own, or with a few more people? I think the best bet is to work with a community of a decent size. A hundred people or so is about right. And you can find them easily by starting a peak oil group within your area.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
IF and I say with a big IF, you actually have EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE derived from your actual experience in growing, preserving and cooking food, you could make a bundle teaching most others who are completely ignorant, as I was, until I worked at it almost a year.
IF you do that, you will guarantee to get traded the best stuff that you could want, provided that you have experiential knowledge and expertise.
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
mikeh433 wrote:
IF you do that, you will guarantee to get traded the best stuff that you could want, provided that you have experiential knowledge and expertise.
Grandma taught me well, grasshopper.. I am a bit rusty though. Perhaps this is another skill that could do with a bit of practice while its cheap and easy to do. There's a massive, bolt down canner / pressure cooker on Amazon; but I'm afraid that if I buy it, her ghost will come back and drop nuts on my head out of jealousy! She always had to do it four or five quarts at a time..
Still think freezing is going to be better and more economical over the next few decades.
To be fair, I learned the processing, canning, and cooking from Grandma; the growing and harvesting part from Grandpa. Not sure why I paid such attention to skills that were apparently useless at the time.... Now they seem like gold in the bank. _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
ajwald wrote:
to ensure survival, you probably need to purchase resources and contract labour that will cost you in the several millions - if you truly want a happy life in a mad max world that matches your current quality of life. (I am assuming here that quality of life can only be maintained by keeping up present consumption - this is debatable)
you need to develop a unique plan that accounts for all aspects, from personal nutritional needs to how much natural gas you must stockpile. If you want kids then this planning can become very tough. You have to design your own low-energy house and method of growing produce. This means you need to know a ton of chemistry, biology, math and physics first. You even need to account for the effect of global warming on your location in 10-50 years.
the only way you can acquire such money in time is probably to steal it, unless you have the knowledge to obtain it otherwise.
in other words, unless you are superrich, you basically can't prepare. The resources you need are unobtainable. Even the acquisition of the prerequisite knowledge you need will take too much time.
of course if you were working with 10 other people who have knowledge in specific areas that are relevant, and are willing to pool their assets, you could probably pull it off. But I am finding it impossible to find people with the required money/skills that are willing to participate in a co-op project due to disbelief of the Olduvai theory.
it's hopeless, have fun now man!
sorry?
Where-abouts are you located? I had been thinking about, though probably too late now, how I could'a been splitting costs and putting some money into silver, where as I've been spending everything this year on stuff needed. Even a shared household would'a ... also be potentially dangerous, but if there is no other way, less dangerous.
Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 269 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
It occurs to me that preparing for PO is like preparing for life: if you knew you were going to live to be 100 you might do things differently in your life. Or as Mickey Mantle said, "If I knew I was going to live so long I would have taken better care of myself". You can only do what you can do and after the fact you will always discover something you could have done better. I am willing to bet that even the person who believes they have prepared for the ultimate PO doomerosity will discover something they forgot or should have done better. Ultimately, if somebody is on their deathbed in old age their last thought will not be, "I sure wish I had spent more time preparing for PO". We need to find the balance between living now and preparing for the future, which is great if you enjoy it, but is another story if it becomes dreadful drudgery.
Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: Madison,Wisconsin
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare with no money?
Well, I'm trying to prepare up in Wisconsin. I have no money. So ergo, this thread must be about ME!!!.
LOL
On a serious note, I am trying to prepare, and so far failing miserably other than gaining some skills, and even there I'm doing a bad job. But I'm motivated to do better every day when I look down at my daughter. So, what can I do.
This is partially from thinking about what a organization can do in terms of making our lives better for peak oil.
1.Learn skills. Obvious and I won't go into detail, but there are many things that by learning, you make your life easier post peak.
2. Develope contacts. Going it alone I'm sorry to say will never work. Not for true sustainability. Start getting to know your fellow humans. Especially those who enjoy doing things you don't. Like sewing. I hate it, I have huge fingers. My friend robin put together whole outfits and can knit. I wonder if she'll be a useful person to know post peak?...
3 Think in terms of what you can do now, and what you want to do in the future.
If your poor now, start saving. If your rich now, start aquiring skills to help keep you there. I guess you have to tailor your seeking of advantages to your situation.
4. Find ways to not have the government annoy you.
The only area I agree with the republican platform on is there is alot of government we don't need. I think they wouldn't like the fact I also think there is government that we don't have that we should have, but what can you do? Local and state politics are very often decided by only a few votes compared to national elections, and more importantly, will often affect you directly more. Join an organization or 10 that you think might actually make it easier to live post peak. That always helps.
All I got right now, I'm discovering the joys of Teamspeak. Get on and get talking Foos. _________________ Azreal60
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