Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6417 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
jaws wrote:
...Politicians exist to serve themselves.
Classic case in point: Joe Lieberman. The SOB is now going to sabotage his own party in a purely egocentric (actually egomanical) attempt to hold onto his Senate seat by running as an "independent". It's all about Joe and nothing but Joe. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
Zardoz wrote:
jaws wrote:
...Politicians exist to serve themselves.
Classic case in point: Joe Lieberman. The SOB is now going to sabotage his own party in a purely egocentric (actually egomanical) attempt to hold onto his Senate seat by running as an "independent". It's all about Joe and nothing but Joe.
Anyone that has enough signatures is allowed to run for that seat. Joe has enough signatures, so he gets to run. No different than anyone else.
The simple fact is that a sitting Senator ought to be able to defend his seat in the general election in November, with or without his party's (or former party's) endorsement. Yall just don't like the fact that ole Joe is likely to win in November, and now that you've pissed him off, he might just NOT vote for Reid for majority leader. That'd be a total riot. In fact, freed from party affiliation, in '08, if a Dem won the White House (and consequently the seat of President of the Senate), in a 50r/49d/1i situation Joe could say, "Make me Majority Leader or I give the Senate to the Republicans."; or alternately, he could go to the Reps and say, "I want to chair Armed Forces"; and he'd get it.
The only real loser in booting Joe from the Democrats is the Democrat party. Sorry guys, but you xxxxx'ed the pooch on this one. _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6468 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
jaws wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Themselves, and the people who enable them to serve themselves.
The electorate? Yeah right.
I'm surprised at you, Jaws. A smart guy like you. Not the electorate, silly---the people who pull the strings that put them and keep them in office. AKA the rich. The politicians are the handmaidens of the rich and have been since the days of ancient Rome, when politics really got going.
Yes, the politicians also serve themselves. But they are equally beholden to the rich.
Ever watched the movie "Being There"? Wonderful filmization of the phenomenon.
I lived in Washington for 25 years and often had an inside seat on its political goings-on, and believe me, politicians do not exist in a vacuum. Just to get started they have to lick all sorts of rich people's asses.
The naivete of some of the comments on this forum surprises me. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
skeptic wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Who's "we"?
The people who are in control of "our" countries are the same people who have always been in control---the rich. Think of the politicians as the hands of the rich, doing their bidding.
Nobody is in control, anymore than any particular ant is in control of an ants nest, or any particular cell is in control of your body. The rich are no more 'in control' than the poor are.
"I don't like to read books. They muss up my mind." - Henry Ford.
The rich are far too busy concentrating on becoming and staying rich. - and that generally means being totally dedicated to a particular enterprise. With Ford it was car making and the development of the assembly line. With Bill Gates it was the development of a universal OS for personal computers.
Neither of these gentelmen have or had time to be 'in control' - outside their area of interest the rich are often incredibly ignorant. They dont have time to be anything else. - till later in life when the buzz of making money wears off a bit (making the 100th million is no where near as much fun as making the first) and figuring out how to give it away becomes more interesting.
And that's why there are so many corporate lobbyists in Washington. They're just there to encourage the govt to mind their own business while they mind their's and focus on "just becoming rich"
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6468 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
Zardoz wrote:
jaws wrote:
...Politicians exist to serve themselves.
Classic case in point: Joe Lieberman. The SOB is now going to sabotage his own party in a purely egocentric (actually egomanical) attempt to hold onto his Senate seat by running as an "independent". It's all about Joe and nothing but Joe.
Lieberman really is a jerk. A great disappointment, but then aren't they all? _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6468 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
threadbear wrote:
skeptic wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Who's "we"?
The people who are in control of "our" countries are the same people who have always been in control---the rich. Think of the politicians as the hands of the rich, doing their bidding.
Nobody is in control, anymore than any particular ant is in control of an ants nest, or any particular cell is in control of your body. The rich are no more 'in control' than the poor are.
"I don't like to read books. They muss up my mind." - Henry Ford.
The rich are far too busy concentrating on becoming and staying rich. - and that generally means being totally dedicated to a particular enterprise. With Ford it was car making and the development of the assembly line. With Bill Gates it was the development of a universal OS for personal computers.
Neither of these gentelmen have or had time to be 'in control' - outside their area of interest the rich are often incredibly ignorant. They dont have time to be anything else. - till later in life when the buzz of making money wears off a bit (making the 100th million is no where near as much fun as making the first) and figuring out how to give it away becomes more interesting.
And that's why there are so many corporate lobbyists in Washington. They're just there to encourage the govt to mind their own business while they mind their's and focus on "just becoming rich"
Correct, Threadbear. The lobbyists are the go-betweens between the politicians and the rich. They serve to insulate each pole. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: May 11, 2006 Posts: 312 Location: Near New Life Church =( U.S.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
Are we (the people) in control of our countries?
No and a thousand times, NO. In the United States of America a "free" and "democratic" society all the choices are ultimately made by the share holders of the federal reserve system, which is a private corporate bank. This private bank controls how much interest you pay on all of your debts. They print the money and create the digits in the computers then charge the government interest on that debt in which the government turns to the citizens to pay it back through income taxes. Please note the US government has the authority to issue money.
These people literally hold the economy in their hands, they dont give a damn what you think. The bankers purposely put idiots into office who do everything their snake oil salesmen (lobbiest, think tanks, foundations, non-profit organizes, special interest grps, inc) tell them to do, hell the political leaders make a great living compared to the impoverished citizens of the country. These bankers not only put snake oil salesmen in Washington but own the all the mass media in this country and most media in the world.
They truely wish to enslave you because they hate you for your freedoms. This is why America is in so much debt; the banks make HUGE amounts of money off the debt. Hell, look at Jamaica as an example:
The polarization in America is so great that I honestly fear civil war as a possible outcome, but I have no evidence. If there was ever a civil war, both sides would be financed by the bankers so no matter who wins YOU LOOSE; just like elections that are held ever 4 years. Democratic or Republican, YOU LOOSE!
These people are evil, brutal, clever, and sinister to the core. Their ability to murder almost 3,000 americans without spending one day in jail (there are many people who are in prison for the rest of their lives after ONE MURDER). Then set up a "911 truth" movement to purposely sabotage it and discredit real research that proves government involement.
Our government is nothing more than organized criminals who lie to you, rob you (not steal, they use force or fear), void the constitution, poison your food, impoverish you and ultimately make your life far more difficult.
I take a lot of heat for saying these things to anyone I meet and all my friends think I'm crazy, along with my family. I dont care what the public thinks of my views because I know the vast majority of the public is told so much disinformation they dont know what to believe. _________________ Stop Breeding!
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
The EU money is getting Madrid some lovely infsastructure, such as the new extentions and stations on the metro and converting all major motorways underground! :D
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
Heineken wrote:
I'm surprised at you, Jaws. A smart guy like you. Not the electorate, silly---the people who pull the strings that put them and keep them in office. AKA the rich. The politicians are the handmaidens of the rich and have been since the days of ancient Rome, when politics really got going.
Yes, the politicians also serve themselves. But they are equally beholden to the rich.
Ever watched the movie "Being There"? Wonderful filmization of the phenomenon.
I lived in Washington for 25 years and often had an inside seat on its political goings-on, and believe me, politicians do not exist in a vacuum. Just to get started they have to lick all sorts of rich people's asses.
The naivete of some of the comments on this forum surprises me.
There's no such thing as "the rich". You're just promoting a conspiracy theory like the people who blame everything on jews or the knights templar. There are different rich people with competing interests, and so it's no surprise that some of them will end up competing for power.
Joined: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 425 Location: Traded the man in front of the tank for a cat playing the banjo
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
KhanCEO wrote:
...
The polarization in America is so great that I honestly fear civil war as a possible outcome, but I have no evidence. If there was ever a civil war, both sides would be financed by the bankers so no matter who wins YOU LOOSE; ...
You are totally right, look ath this:
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching. It unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. The money powers preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the financial institutions at the rear, the latter is my greatest foe. Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed."
~ Abraham Lincoln, letter to William Elkins, Nov 21, 1864 (just after the passage of the debt causing National Bank Act [June 3, 1864], right before assassination) ~ _________________ When someone interprets as derogatory almost anything that is said about him (or about groups with whom he identifies) we conclude that he has inferiority feelings or low self-esteem.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
The different forms of government are simply different solutions to mass rioting. One of the jobs of govenemnt is to keep the masses from rioting. Democracy is an attempt to convince the masses that they have a part, a say, in what goes on. The richer you are, the more part and say you have.
Totalitarian governments use the direct approach to prevent riots, but this is generally not very sustainable. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6468 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Are we in control of our countries?
jaws wrote:
There's no such thing as "the rich". You're just promoting a conspiracy theory like the people who blame everything on jews or the knights templar. There are different rich people with competing interests, and so it's no surprise that some of them will end up competing for power.
Like it or not, groups with common interests do exist, Jaws. The rich are one of those loose groups. They contain all sorts of competing factions, granted. But they tend to pull together around certain causes (such as, off the top of my head, the minimum wage, or national health insurance, or taxes).
I'm not talking conspiracy theory here. Just the natural result of the power differential that exists when some people have $10 to spend and others have only a nickel. The first group can buy people; the second group can only be bought.
I mean, to claim that the rich don't have a disproportionate influence on politics is plain naive.
Try running for town dogcatcher someday and you'll find out why. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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