Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Because the Power Elite is afraid we may hurt them
28%
[ 25 ]
Because the power elite is afraid we may hurt ourselves
6%
[ 6 ]
Because crime would rise
8%
[ 8 ]
Because we don’t need guns (if we needed them they’d be legal)
23%
[ 21 ]
Because we don’t live in a free country
21%
[ 19 ]
Other, please specify
11%
[ 10 ]
Total Votes : 89
Author
Message
kevincarter Heavy Crude
Joined: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 429 Location: Traded the man in front of the tank for a cat playing the banjo
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
It depends on the country. The main argument is that crime would raise, but nowadays we are getting closer to a situation where only criminals have guns, and they know it.
I can understand how that happens:
-you live in the ex-Yugoslavia, soldiers come to your house, rape and kill everyone and set the roof on fire, you see it all but manage to escape, you run, get your revolver and ammo, jump into your Skoda and drive all the way to here, at the border nobody bothers you, there is to much traffic going on.
After that kind of experience you are quite troubled I can understand that, who wouldn’t be? But you may also be not only crazy and desperate but armed.
Don’t I have the right to have a gun too just in case you loose your mind? The answer is no, you call the police and wait until they get here, in the meanwhile, pray. _________________ When someone interprets as derogatory almost anything that is said about him (or about groups with whom he identifies) we conclude that he has inferiority feelings or low self-esteem.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Laws vary in various EU nations and in few of them (not only in Eastern Europe members) it is not particularly difficult to acquire them lawfully.
I think that Belgium is an example.
Why they are so many restrictions?
Well, I think that it is something to do with misguided understanding of human rights, where rights of criminals are taking a precedence over rights of ordinary citizens.
For the same reason there is EU wide ban on capital punishment.
However as it stands now, I do not perceive EU as particularly stable organization and I do not believe that it will survive more than 20 years from now on. Taking the East in already brings many more tensions.
Russian energy policy is also based on divide and rule principle and EU is beginning to be at Russian mercy in respect to energy access.
We may soon see some changes in EU legislation, eg I noted than one Eastern European (Polish?) president is now calling to reinstate capital punishment.
In UK most of firearms are banned due to kind of "knee jerk" reaction after a lunnie shot dead dosen of kids (and himself) in one school. This made guns seen as "extremely dangerous" by the public.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Grifter wrote:
The reason we don't have guns in Europe is that the power elite / ruling class want us to be dependent on them for defence.
The reason Americans have guns is simply that it was a cheap way to defend the coutry against invasion.
Obviously the argument goes deeper I'm sure but that that is its foundation.
The American Revolution (1776) began with the Colonists firing on the British as they marched to Concord to take away from the colonists arms and gunpowder which the latter had stored there. It is so much easier to protect the interests of the established ruler if the subjects do not have weapons. I think this explains why the citizenry of Europe are not so heavily armed, and why in the US gun ownership is revered.
Joined: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 429 Location: Traded the man in front of the tank for a cat playing the banjo
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
gego wrote:
I thought the Swiss were heavily armed (maybe better than US citizens even) as part of the national defense arrangement. Has that changed?
Well that hasn't changed but they only have 20 round of ammo in a sealed case, they can't buy any extra rounds, their plan is that in the event of an invasion everyone knows where their meeting point is, and that's where the ammo is. Still a fully automatic machine gun with 20 rounds should do for most intruders.
The main difference I see is that the US is armed and that means that if their goverment gets too out of control at least they can defend themselves, look at their declaration of independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Now, compare that to any EU text, HA! _________________ When someone interprets as derogatory almost anything that is said about him (or about groups with whom he identifies) we conclude that he has inferiority feelings or low self-esteem.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
gego wrote:
Grifter wrote:
The reason we don't have guns in Europe is that the power elite / ruling class want us to be dependent on them for defence.
The reason Americans have guns is simply that it was a cheap way to defend the coutry against invasion.
Obviously the argument goes deeper I'm sure but that that is its foundation.
The American Revolution (1776) began with the Colonists firing on the British as they marched to Concord to take away from the colonists arms and gunpowder which the latter had stored there. It is so much easier to protect the interests of the established ruler if the subjects do not have weapons. I think this explains why the citizenry of Europe are not so heavily armed, and why in the US gun ownership is revered.
I think we agree. I also think the American leaders think it stinks and would love to disarm you. That will prove to be a difficult task as it is so ingrained in your culture.
Yes its revered but it is a right by an accident of circumstance.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
I do not buy "scared governments" arguments.
You see, GOVERNMENT HAS HEAVIER GUNS.
If US government had really turned despotic (what is very likely in near future), no rebellion would have more than a tiny chance to succeed.
I cannot really imagine "fat cats" of "disturbed consumer mindset" capable to challenge with a handgun US special forces and gestappo alike FBI.
And remember: if worst comes, than "centres of resistance" would be cluster bombed or nuked.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Well, if the U.S. government turned truly despotic, it would face asymmetric warfare in many areas. Not everywhere, of course, but it doesn't have to be "everywhere" to be impossible to fight. This sort of fighting means that the superiority of the government's arms may be irrelevant, as we see in Iraq.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Grifter wrote:
Obviously the argument goes deeper I'm sure but that that is its foundation.
The restriction on private ownership of weapons in Europe (and Canada) only goes back to the 20th Century.
Carrying weapons in public places and duelling are different issues of course. The main reason the Duke of Wellington did not like duelling was having his officers dieing before they had seen the French..... _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
We are a little better armed than you might think. There is a Bren LMG sitting on top of my book case as I write. Our perception is that a man well armed and vigilant, keeps his goods in peace.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
diogenes wrote:
Well, if the U.S. government turned truly despotic, it would face asymmetric warfare in many areas. Not everywhere, of course, but it doesn't have to be "everywhere" to be impossible to fight. This sort of fighting means that the superiority of the government's arms may be irrelevant, as we see in Iraq.
We maight see much more in Iraq, if US Army really decides to win this war (or just to make a point here or there).
We do not see it now, only because US government is not sufficiently despotic now.
Once it goes a Nazi way (and I think, that it is probably inevitable in medium term future - say 20 years or so), there will be completely another story.
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