Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Because the Power Elite is afraid we may hurt them
28%
[ 25 ]
Because the power elite is afraid we may hurt ourselves
6%
[ 6 ]
Because crime would rise
8%
[ 8 ]
Because we don’t need guns (if we needed them they’d be legal)
23%
[ 21 ]
Because we don’t live in a free country
21%
[ 19 ]
Other, please specify
11%
[ 10 ]
Total Votes : 89
Author
Message
eXpat Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 08, 2006 Posts: 1069
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
True, as the article says Britain remains one of the countries with the lowest murder rate in the world per capita. Why?, my personal opinion, after been living here since 2000 (so yes, since i'm not native i can be wrong) is the comparative high standard of life, there's not much use for a thief stealing a, let's say DVD player and go to cash it in a pawn shop if you can go to ASDA (Walmart) and get a new one for £17, thet get almost nothing for a night of hard work. If someone steal your things, break windows or so, you just call the insurance and happy you go to buy a new one.
I had to call a couple of times the police because a gang of neds were thowing stones in my windows, the first time police came 1 hour after i called, when they were long gone.
The second time i got lucky with a quicker answer: 45 minutes later the police called me in my mobile apologizing because they had not cameras in my street and so there's nothing they could do ?????.
Present stadistics reflect, I think the true bad apples that really like violence for violence’s sake; what happens if the economic situation worsens, and those that depend on benefits stop getting it? I think the rate of crime will skyrocket.
Botton line for me is if you want to protect you and your family a loaded gun will always be faster that the time you take taking the phone, calling the cops and waiting for them to show up. _________________ Stocking up on popcorn
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
eXpat wrote:
Botton line for me is if you want to protect you and your family a loaded gun will always be faster that the time you take taking the phone, calling the cops and waiting for them to show up.
Police prioritize their calls according to their gravity. I have been in the unfortunate situation of having been a victim of a physical attack twice, and I have no complaints about the speed of the British police in those two cases.
On the other hand, I know the current stance that the police has on a report of somebody owning a replica gun and showing it (not pointing it) to somebody else in a veiled threat. Believe me, you don't want to be in that situation. I shiver just to think what would happen if you owned a real gun and you actually pointed it. And if you did fire, you are in deep, deep crap.
And my opinion on defending myself remains the same: guns aren't bulletproof vests. A knife is as far as I go in weapons, and I make damn sure that it's the sort of knife used for work, not as a weapon.
And the two times I was attacked, boy, did the attackers regret it afterwards. I made sure of that.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
I think is the bigger problem here. Anti-social crime rather than particularly violent. Not sure ASBOs are the answer, I’ll reserve judgement, a problem not easily tackled I’m sure. I don’t think those community-support officers are the answer either – apologies if any UK members are one, but most of them look like they have a second job as lollipop ladies (or should that be lollipop people?!). Being a cop should be a profession IMO.
I don’t think crime will skyrocket, and I think the increase will be petty-crime mostly. I’d be surprised if anyone stopped getting benefits.
Bottom line for me is I want the freedom not to have to own a gun. I’d rather face someone with a knife than with a gun if it came to it. I have, though not over here.
Joined: May 14, 2006 Posts: 71 Location: Central Canada
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
British crime statistics
The UK measure crime using two different processes:
British Crime Survey (BCS): The Home Office conducts surveys of the population to determine how often subjects have been affected by criminal activity. Data is projected to reflect the entire population.
Police reporting: Crimes are reported to the police and nationwide, census-level statistics are summarized.
The BCS has been reporting a declining crime rate in the UK while police reporting has shown an increase. The BCS has routinely been criticized because it under reports crime due to the
following factors:
• Murdered and imprisoned people do not answer surveys
• Some crimes are not surveyed when victims are below age 16
• Does not include crime against institutions (bank robbery, etc.)
These deficiencies are so significant, that even the British government does not believe the
accuracy of the BCS.
“The BCS did not record ‘various categories of violent crime’, including murder and rape, retail crime, drug-taking, or offences in which the victims were aged below 16. The most reliable measure of crime is that which is reported to the police. We're facing over a million violent crimes a year for the first time in history.”
One curious tidbit: Murder rates initially appear to decline after 2002/2003. This is chiefly due to some 172 murders by serial killer Dr. Shipman which were booked in 2002/03 and did not
recur in 2003/04. _________________ “Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko.”
-John Loeffler
“The truth will set you free, but first it will make you sick.”
-Unknown
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Declan, I'm not sure that this is unique to the UK.
Police reporting: Crimes are reported to the police and nationwide, census-level statistics are summarized.
What happens if people don't report the crimes? That's the reason for doing the survey. Both methods have their weaknesses.
Besides the BCS doesn't record murders, unless they're using ouije boards..
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
eXpat wrote:
45 minutes later the police called me in my mobile apologizing because they had not cameras in my street and so there's nothing they could do ?????
What is it with Britain and the whole "we'll shove a camera up everyone's ass" mentality? No guns, cameras everywhere, sounds like the makings of a great role model police state. Crazy place by the sounds of it.
sooooo, another means of self defense taken away from normal people, do you think robbers, burglars, rapists and the like, would be bothered for this? When you are caming back from work late, or in winter that here gets dark at 4:00 PM already, is there going to be a police in every block, making sure that you get safe home?.
Haaa, but then, we are 'Secure beneath The Watchful Eyes' (poster of 2002):
http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/002285.html _________________ Stocking up on popcorn
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Well, it is not accurate to say that none of the Europeans have guns...
In Finland there are over two million licensed firearms and an estimated quarter of a million unlicensed firearms. According the Finnish Ministry of the Interior, firearms are present in approximately one-quarter of Finnish homes. There are just 5 million Finns, so it means gun ownership is high.
This of course has lot of historical and cultural reasons (hunting, last world war etc.) and government silently blesses private gun ownership.
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
In Italy as well you can have guns, I have never applied for a permit there, but if memory doesn't fails my the limit is 3 guns for self defence and unlimited for hunting.
You do have a limit of ammo, but you can stock the allowed amount for yourself and go to practice to a shooting club and buy ammo there.
I have spanish friends that told me that the situation is quite similar in Spain. _________________ Stocking up on popcorn
Joined: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 429 Location: Traded the man in front of the tank for a cat playing the banjo
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
eXpat wrote:
In Italy as well you can have guns, I have never applied for a permit there, but if memory doesn't fails my the limit is 3 guns for self defence and unlimited for hunting.
You do have a limit of ammo, but you can stock the allowed amount for yourself and go to practice to a shooting club and buy ammo there.
I have spanish friends that told me that the situation is quite similar in Spain.
Similar in Spain? no man, it's VERY different, after 40 years of fascism you get:
Hand guns, forget it, you’ll never get one, they are only for self defence and in order to get the permit for that you have to prove that your life is being threatened by ETA or something similar. Having been robbed 100 times at your own store does not make you eligible, wanting to protect your family or your property etc is not a valid reason either. In any case if you ever get the license is only valid for 5 years and you are entitled to one hand gun only.
Rifles and shoutguns, for hunting purposes only, first you have to ask for a government paper that says you have not been in jail. Then you have to take a test on guns out of a 225 pages book, its a hard test, I looked at the questions and they are not of the easy type, then you have to go to Madrid to take a practical test on guns, yeah, so if you live in the Canary Isalnds you have to get in a plane travel all the way to Madrid, take the test (pray that you pass it), and go back home. Then you are allowed 5 guns only and those have to be kept in a special locker and, what’s most fun, police can come any time to check that the guns are in the safe. After that every year you have to present yourself with the guns at the police station to pay the fee (Of course there is a fee for every single step). If you don’t want to have your license anymore you have 2 options, you give the guns to the police or have them drill two holes in the barrel near where the round is placed so your gun won’t shoot.
I’m not kidding, it wasn’t always like that though. Farmers for instance usually have rifles and go hunting often, the only difference is that they got their licenses long ago.
My only hope is that in this crazy country laws change every 10 minutes, so I’m just waiting for my window of opportunity. LOL!
By the way if you are in any EU country and you have a gun license there then this license is valid here too. _________________ When someone interprets as derogatory almost anything that is said about him (or about groups with whom he identifies) we conclude that he has inferiority feelings or low self-esteem.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3904 Location: over here
Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
because Europe doesn't have guns, the cops there don't have the right to search people. _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
I do not know about the rest of Europe, but loads of people have guns in France. I visited a huge gun shop in Normandy last year. It was full of all kinds of guns illegal in the UK.
We live on an offshore island and we are allowed guns, strictly licensed.
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Gil-Galad wrote:
We live on an offshore island and we are allowed guns, strictly licensed.
This I think is a distinction between Europe and the US. In Europe, it seems that you are "allowed" by the state, when in the US it is a matter of right (even though the state seems to be intruding on that right in recent years).
Certainly there are examples where gun control in Europe has worked perfectly in preventing one resident from killing another with a gun. The most striking example is among inmates in Nazi concentration camps. I have never heard or read of a death from one inmate shooting another.
So, just think of some parts of Europe (like UK) as a big state run camp.
Joined: Oct 20, 2004 Posts: 520 Location: The Land of Do-As-You-Please
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Europe, Why don’t we have guns?
Quote:
I do not know about the rest of Europe, but loads of people have guns in France. I visited a huge gun shop in Normandy last year. It was full of all kinds of guns illegal in the UK.
That's what I don't get about this topic. Retards like Lorenzo assume that just because you can't buy guns from department stores like in the US, Europe is for some reason magically free of them.
Not withstanding all the massive militaries that all European countries maintain, at least some type of gun is available to civilians in every Western European country.
Obviously restrictions vary a lot from country to country. For instance in most of Europe it's possible to own handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles if you're keen enough, whereas sporting firearms are much easier to obtain in general.
So where this idea that Europeans 'don't have guns' or 'don't need guns' comes from I don't know. They may be far more restricted than the US, but Europeans civilians own tens of millions of firearms amongst them. Jesus Christ, I hope some of you aren't this ignorant about everything.
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