Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Kingcoal wrote:
Maybe was can retitle this thread : "German taxes booming"
There are only two ways that any government can get the money needed to pay for the services it provides. One is through taxation, the other is through borrowing. Some nations prefer the taxation route, others prefer to borrow.
The US prefers to keep taxes low, thus heavily borrows (sells bonds to petrodollar holders) with the idea that such a move will keep more money in consumers pockets now for them to spend and boost sales. Yet, it not only isn't working out that way, it isn't necessary.
The extra money in the pocket isn't much as it is offset by lower wages as high paying jobs have gone and continue to go to cheap labour countries. Thus Americans must live heavily off credit. Since they already live off of credit, why not just raise the taxes and just encourage Americans to borrow that much more.
Either way, the American middle and poor classes will pay. When the borrowed money must be paid back, it will come out of American pockets, just like taxes usually do, except then it will be more. You have to consider not only the principle but the interest.
At least with German taxes, the money goes to services. What are Americans getting for their money other then an expensive war in Iraq?
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Euric wrote:
What are Americans getting for their money other then an expensive war in Iraq?
Really fancy bunkers that thier government officials can hide in when the masses revolt? _________________ The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Quote:
Given Ireland was economically so depressed for so long that its major export was its peoples, how much of the recent price inflation in Ireland was due to under investment in infrastructure that meant the cities and the towns were simply unable to cope with the growth once the economy turned around and inward FDI as well as financial flows (Dublin tax haven status) started to re-inflate the economy? And do you see prices levelling off as supply catches up to demand?
The 50,000 or so young people who were leaving the country per year in the 80's ceased and we have the delight of 5,000 Eastern Europeans per week arriving here too. This has driven the economy and the housing demand nuts. Ribbon developments springing up everywhere. There is evidence now to suggest a recen teasing in the rate of house price increases but they are still increasing. Infaltion is at 4.5% officially. Prices across the board are visibly rising by the month. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Madpaddy wrote:
We have 21% VAT in Ireland on goods and 13.5% on services. It's a killer.
@_@
That's highway robbery.
You should come to America. There is no national sales tax but instead local sales taxes that can vary widely from state to state and even from city to city. Where I live there's a 8.5% sales tax (quite high by American standards)
I'd rather pay less taxes and receive less government services.
Getting back to Germany or maybe Europe in general. I honestly don't know how they compete? What is it that Germany can produce that Asia cannot (at a cheaper price)? My guess (I could be wrong) is that Germany probably makes "capital goods" not "consumer goods". For example Germany might produce a manufacturing robot. (capital good) But South Korea would use the robot to make cell phones. (consumer good)
Maybe capial goods are a niche market that the Asian "Tigers" haven't caught on yet? When it comes to manufacturing consumer electronics I think it's safe to say the Asian nations have that market completely cornered.
On the bright side I hear Germany produces really good kitchen knives.
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Dreamtwister wrote:
Euric wrote:
What are Americans getting for their money other then an expensive war in Iraq?
Really fancy bunkers that their government officials can hide in when the masses revolt?
For real? And when will that ever happen?
I was under the impression that Americans were brain washed against revolutions. They have been taught to make changes via elections. If you don't like things the way they are run, then you vote, not revolt for change.
Nice idea, but when the person you want to vote out is a master at voter fraud and can keep himself and his gang in, then your means change don't exist.
In the 1880's Americans did revolt against their industrial masters who worked them to death. They worked long hours in dirty jobs for little pay while their bosses lived the life of luxury. The revolts then were called strikes and gained Americans a century of a very good and prosperous life. But that is all gone.
Americans of the last 25 years have not revolted but eagerly gave what was gained for them away. You are back to where things were 120 years ago. You have the working poor and the extreme rich who control everything.
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Euric wrote:
Dreamtwister wrote:
Euric wrote:
What are Americans getting for their money other then an expensive war in Iraq?
Really fancy bunkers that their government officials can hide in when the masses revolt?
For real? And when will that ever happen?
What can I say? There's a pork barrel for every contingency.
And even if the citizens never revolt, those bunkers will come in handy when someone comes to "liberate" America. _________________ The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Ireland is a victim of its own success, just like London. Housing is expensive, but that's because everyone wants to go there. If you're a young person starting out in life, that you can buy a house cheap in France is no consolation for the fact that you can't get a job in France. You can find one in Ireland or London and build up your career that way. Then when you're a rich bugger, you quit your job, buy that house in France and lord it over the impoverished locals.
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Jaws wrote,
Quote:
Ireland is a victim of its own success, just like London. Housing is expensive, but that's because everyone wants to go there. If you're a young person starting out in life, that you can buy a house cheap in France is no consolation for the fact that you can't get a job in France. You can find one in Ireland or London and build up your career that way. Then when you're a rich bugger, you quit your job, buy that house in France and lord it over the impoverished locals.
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Euric wrote:
MrBill wrote:
It's not actually her idea or her party's, but a nod to the SPD who she is sharing power with. Plus, Germany has to bring their budget deficit down below the 3% maximum as laid-out in The Maastricht Treaty and it was either increase VAT or cut social spending. German governments love to tax & spend. This is the result.
Or more truthfully, Germans want and expect the government to provide certain services for them and the government obliges.
The US is no different, except the rich who run the government spend on projects that benefit the rich, such as wars of aggression. The rest of the masses are expected to fend for themselves. Of course, taxation is limited to keep the masses from revolting, thus the cost is sold as bonds to petrodollar holders, giving the illusion that the US doesn't spend frivolously and forcing the peasants to pay. When the foreign investors start to demand payment for their investment, then we will see who were the biggest tax and spenders.
Do you know what makes me laugh about you? I actually pay taxes in Germany, and have a pretty fair idea about the strengths and the faults of that particular country. I do not have to make up fairy tales to explain the world as I wish it were. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
jaws wrote:
Ireland is a victim of its own success, just like London. Housing is expensive, but that's because everyone wants to go there. If you're a young person starting out in life, that you can buy a house cheap in France is no consolation for the fact that you can't get a job in France. You can find one in Ireland or London and build up your career that way. Then when you're a rich bugger, you quit your job, buy that house in France and lord it over the impoverished locals.
Why can't he get a job in France? France and Ireland are both EU countries and either national can move or work in any of the EU countries. Where the young person may want to go to get a start is one of the new EU countries in the east.
Even if he/she eventually returns to Ireland the contacts they made in Eastern Europe may be utilized in later business dealings from Ireland.
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: German Economy booming
Euric wrote:
jaws wrote:
Ireland is a victim of its own success, just like London. Housing is expensive, but that's because everyone wants to go there. If you're a young person starting out in life, that you can buy a house cheap in France is no consolation for the fact that you can't get a job in France. You can find one in Ireland or London and build up your career that way. Then when you're a rich bugger, you quit your job, buy that house in France and lord it over the impoverished locals.
Why can't he get a job in France? France and Ireland are both EU countries and either national can move or work in any of the EU countries. Where the young person may want to go to get a start is one of the new EU countries in the east.
Even if he/she eventually returns to Ireland the contacts they made in Eastern Europe may be utilized in later business dealings from Ireland.
Euric! You're absolutely correct. There is hope, yet! ;- )
The problem is language skills. Young people may not them, older workers who do, may be too expensive.
With regards to investment bankers, yes, they are very well paid. But only a few meet the criteria, and it is a 'there at the right time' type of recruiting. If you speak the 'right' language they are looking for and have existing clients, you might get a great paying job in either France or Ireland. I talked to a Ukraine working in New York who is waiting for a work permit in France although in the meantime he will work for Russia. Lucky him, he speaks 7 different languages and is still relatively young. I have the same experience, more, but I am older and have different work and living permits, which disqualify me from the same jobs, even though I have more experience and am at least tri-lingual.
There was a recent post from Brad Setser in which a Guest posted about the PhD that loses his job in Silicon Valley to someone in Inida. At that point globalization has reached its diminishing returns. There are no more high paying, value added jobs, to trade for lower manufacturing and assembly jobs. Chindia are taking them all no matter how well educated or how many languages you speak. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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