Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Tomorrow the gov't comes to my house to cut my energy us
gego wrote:
Aflury even goes so far to exhibit his dependency on others by saying that capitalism's duty is to attract buyers; sellers in the market are supposed to take responsibility to see that Lorenzo keeps his house energy effectient. How much more passive can one be?
I have no idea what you are talking about here. The issue of anyone's responsibility is moot if the event (conservation) is not happening. no amount of moralizing is going to change the way people act. And that is the problem with fundamentalism at either end of the capitalist, socialist (or any other) spectrum. to paraphrase Rummy: you run an economy with the people you have.
Capitalism is naturally attracted toward profitable enterprises. Many critical enterprises just do not make great profit centers, or suffer greatly from profit-taking. So Capitalism turns out to be a poor tool for those purposes. It is hard to imagine critical projects like medicine, military, education, conservation, and prisons degenerating into anything worse than the parodies they have become under capitalism.
I may have been unclear, but I meant to say that the proof is somewhat in the pudding: the fact that lorenzo (as a surrogate for john q. public) did not have these things done, is proof enough that capitalism has failed in this case. it did not convince him to take steps. whereas the "socialist" (or whatever) policy did, in this case.
This supposed relationship between independence and capitalism is profoundly absurd... If the capitalists aren't dependent on me, then why are they spending millions trying to wheedle me into buying their products? mind you i don't think this is a mark against capitalism.... whatever glory in independence is imagined to be lurking in capitalism is embedded in some mythology of the entrepeneur we could all live without. Mutual dependence is mutual preservation.
Capitalists like to think they are self ectualized entrepenuers when they are just burying and denying their dependence on the work of others.
Capitalism doesn't have a literal "duty." That is a figure of speech... though it must attract buyers or fail... so maybe it is a duty to their shareholders, that's all.
Lorenzo may have had some moral duty to add these conservation measures to his home... However, if your case for capitalism is predicated on this kind of duty, i would urge you to pack it up and go home.... people will do what they do, and that is the foundation on which you build your opinions about economic systems.
Contrary to your assumptions, I am not a socialist. I recognize that if you are going to build a house, you are going to need a hammer AND a saw.
Capitalism is the hammer and socialism is the saw.
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tomorrow the gov't comes to my house to cut my energy us
Hold on, there's a misunderstanding: I'm not passive. The government launched a campaign saying that if you choose to you can use their efficiency team and you get free stuff. So I actually made an active choice. I (actually my buddies) did the effort of visiting the website, making the appointment, waiting for the team, and standing by.
I'm also not passive when it comes to actively throwing away the horrible but efficient lamps we got for free.
We need a mix of both: government initiative to activat consumers, but private companies designing prettier lamps. The government can then test different companies' lamps, and let the free market design the best. The best get a monopsony order. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Tomorrow the gov't comes to my house to cut my energy us
lorenzo wrote:
For the rest, we don't like the brightness and harsh white of the new lamps - we're going to throw them away, lol. (They're TL-type lamps, proletarian stuff, ugly, hard - we want halogen luxury.)
Two questions lorenzo:
1) I'm not exactly sure what 'TL-type' lamps are? Are these compact fluorescent bulbs? I've always thought that the 'point light' halogens were harsher than CFs - bluer light and sharp edged shadows.
2) You mentioned before intelligent switch for TV etc to get rid of standby mode. I've not seen anything like this, did they actually do anything? Personally I've got a radio control switch to turn off all the PC, monitor, power blocks on an extention cord in one go.
Did any of what they did actually require them, couldn't you have done it yourself? _________________ Arcane Domain
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