Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Not to be constantly negative....
I had an idea, not that anything I suggest has any chance of being used either, but here it is.
Six people.
3 - from hard conservatives blocks
3 - from hard liberal blocks
Select by:
Find the most right wing (by votes for Senate) county in TX, UT, and GA, and take the highest ranking elected official with prosecutorial power.
Find the most left wing county in NY, MA, CA, and take the highest ranking elected official with prosecutorial power.
They form a court with power to subpoena anyone and anything.
No video. No audio. Written report with all six signatures to be released at their discretion. Written transcript to be released as a historical record fifty years afterwards, no exclusions for any state "secret" classifications; NONE.
This completely kills the "gotcha" drive, the grandstanding, the book selling; the people involved will be brutally direct with no consideration to how good they look. Real data will be acquired. The report will insure no "partisan" taint; and the eventual historic release will insure they don't punt.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Quote:
I had an idea, not that anything I suggest has any chance of being used either, but here it is...
I'd guess it would be a 50-50 split. It would have to be independent of politics, somehow.
Quote:
This completely kills the "gotcha" drive, the grandstanding, the book selling; the people involved will be brutally direct with no consideration to how good they look.
I agree. That loose change film is the worst in my eyes. Just my opinion.
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Gridlock wrote:
Quote:
Ok, so we've gone from a relatively small group of CT folks, to about ten million that will instantly think anything he signs his name to is left wing propaganda. Great progress there.
I would have to agree. But one question, regardless of whether it would be ‘independent’ or not, would you agree that another investigation is warranted?
See my previous post. While I do offer that suggestion, I think it would be a waste of money and waste of time. Watch how others react to it. Anything that keeps them from their passionate desire to have Bush's head on a platter will be unacceptable.
Its also reasonable to assume that the realities of government essentially preclude any "independent" anything. No lefty thought Kenneth Starr was independent, eh? _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Here we go again. Your countrymen's lives are about to be put at risk, in a questionable attack. Surely it's fair to give them some reassurance about the reasons for it. Maybe it's better to clear this one up, as a few million quid for another investigation is small change (not loose change).
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
rwwff wrote:
See my previous post. While I do offer that suggestion, I think it would be a waste of money and waste of time. Watch how others react to it. Anything that keeps them from their passionate desire to have Bush's head on a platter will be unacceptable.
That's bullshit.
If there had been a decent investigation that addressed all the public's questions in the first place, we wouldn't be having the argument.
It's always been about unanswered and ignored questions. 911 has been used to embroil the country in two losing wars and is being further used to curtail Constutional rights. Why shouldn't a citizen raise the questions?
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Gridlock wrote:
Maybe it's better to clear this one up, as a few million quid for another investigation is small change (not loose change).
It won't clear it up; it'll make it worse.
Show me one that will clear it up, and I might be inclined otherwise. I gave a suggestion, a real, bipartisan suggestion, and it got stomped for the guys having something to do with "politics".
Your turn. Find me one that won't make it worse.
Carlhole wrote:
If there had been a decent investigation that addressed all the public's questions in the first place, we wouldn't be having the argument.
And so, after this all encompassing report is released, blasting Bush, and 5,624 conservative questioners then come forth with their lame-axe conspiracy questions blaming Clinton or Harry Reed or Monaca Lewinski, are we supposed to convene yet another commission, to create yet another all encompassing report????
It is NOT POSSIBLE to address all the public's questions, if only because the questions will keep coming until the end of time. _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Quote:
Your turn. Find me one that won't make it worse.
Not sure what worse is. Worse for the repubs? They're doing a damn good job on their own wouldn't you say. OK, but surely it's relatively simple to put the CTs to rest. After all, they believe in moon mice. As this is having international repurcussions, let's turn it over to an international court maybe.
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Gridlock wrote:
Quote:
Your turn. Find me one that won't make it worse.
Not sure what worse is. Worse for the repubs? They're doing a damn good job on their own wouldn't you say. OK, but surely it's relatively simple to put the CTs to rest. After all, they believe in moon mice. As this is having international repurcussions, let's turn it over to an international court maybe.
By worse, I mean increasing the size of the pool of people thinking the New Official Report is a conspiracy/cover-up/whatever.
Hardest suckers in the world to put to bed are the CT's; and as far as I can tell, they are immortal. We still got LINCOLN conspriracies for c*** sake.
ICC. No way in h***. Even if there was nothing for any of it, they'd still convict Bush of talking funny and execute him. Lets be realistic; the world despises Bush with ravenous intensity.
So now that I've defined worse... can you find me one? _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Quote:
Even if there was nothing for any of it, they'd still convict Bush of talking funny and execute him. Lets be realistic; the world despises Bush with ravenous intensity.
The world has despised many people, but should we not have prosecuted them if we'd had the chance? OBL fits the bill, should we not prosecute him?
But you're quite right, a fair hearing is what the civilised world is all about. Why then are we denying it to countless individuals in Guantanamo, or CIA prisons? Do they get a fair trial?
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Gridlock wrote:
Quote:
Your turn. Find me one that won't make it worse.
Not sure what worse is. Worse for the repubs? They're doing a damn good job on their own wouldn't you say. OK, but surely it's relatively simple to put the CTs to rest. After all, they believe in moon mice. As this is having international repurcussions, let's turn it over to an international court maybe.
Yeah, I'd be in favor with an international investigation as long as there were plenty of scientists and engineers, as long as the original 400 some-odd questions that the 911 families originally listed for the Commission were included along with those that the 911 Truth Movement could add.
Certainly, it's within the realm of human capability to answer a question like the identities of those traders/organizations who failed to collect the millions in profits from the put options and the reason why they faild to collect those profits. Where is the politics in a question like that?
When cops investigate a homocide, they don't take into consideration whether the Chief of Police is a Democrat or a Republican or how the victim's family voted. They just investigate the farking crime. _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
rwwff wrote:
Lets be realistic; the world despises Bush with ravenous intensity.
That asshole is going down without any help from the 911 Truth Movement. And if Democrats get in and they continue to ignore and evade these questions, they are going to be every bit as reviled.
There's no farking difference between the two parties anyway. They are both bought and paid for by corporations. It's just a farking shell game.
I wonder who it was that met with Cheney on his Energy Task Force and what plans were made that remain so top secret? Could it have been corporations? _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
Last edited by Carlhole on Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Carlhole wrote:
Certainly, it's within the realm of human capability to answer a question like the identities of those traders/organizations who failed to collect the millions in profits from the put options and the reason why they faild to collect those profits. Where is the politics in a question like that?
Names would be easy.
Reason... not so easy. They'd say stuff like, "we felt it would be too unseemly..." etc. If they said that, would you believe them?
Quote:
When cops investigate a homocide, they don't take into consideration whether the Chief of Police is a Democrat or a Republican or how the victim's family voted. They just investigate the farking crime.
Fine, then what would be the problem with my suggestion of 3 hard core conservative prosecutors, and three hard core liberal prosecutors?
International folks would never be trusted as independent; they are perceived to uniformly have a prejudged position of wanting to convict Bush of something, anything. _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
Carlhole wrote:
I wonder who it was that met with Cheney on his Energy Task Force and what plans were made that remain so top secret? Could it have been corporations?
Of course it was the various board members and CEO's of oil, coal, and nuclear related corporations, who else would even have the information they were looking for?. As much as that raises your hackles, the reason the task force members would want to be secret likely has nothing to do with looking bad, and everything to do with protecting proprietary information shared with Cheney.
Top secret plans like, "what do you need to happen in order to start building nukes again?"; or do you mean top secret as in, "If we shut down oil from Iran and Iraq, how long can we keep the US energy requirements filled?" _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"
rwwff wrote:
Carlhole wrote:
I wonder who it was that met with Cheney on his Energy Task Force and what plans were made that remain so top secret? Could it have been corporations?
Of course it was the various board members and CEO's of oil, coal, and nuclear related corporations, who else would even have the information they were looking for?. As much as that raises your hackles, the reason the task force members would want to be secret likely has nothing to do with looking bad, and everything to do with protecting proprietary information shared with Cheney.
Top secret plans like, "what do you need to happen in order to start building nukes again?"; or do you mean top secret as in, "If we shut down oil from Iran and Iraq, how long can we keep the US energy requirements filled?"
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