Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Forks of Salmon is a settlement in Northern, Northern California, sort of near Yreka, but still hours away due to a series of windy two-lane roads. I passed it by once on a river rafting trip near the Salmon River.
I also remember reading an article in the paper about a dozen years ago which stated that that place and one other (Ely, Nevada??) were regarded as the two communities in America that were truly the most isolated from hospitals and other amenities. I think FoS is in Siskiyou County - more in central California than coastal.
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Zentric I figured out where it is I go morel mushroom hunting and hiking in the Trinity Mountains just south of there. It is truely wtfot-way the f@@k out there. Orleans is a very cool little town south down the Klamath. Yeah I live in Arcata on the coast. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Wow, p, you do live in a good place. Wish we could do that, but DH has a tech career that requires working in cities. He used to have to get on planes all the time, now he commutes to the big city.
So we live as far away from his work as is practical and affordable. We do have a little spread kinda in the woods, with garden space and nice neighbors that we can't see unless we want to. Thinking of chickens next year. Right now it's the best we can do.
Wish we could all work from home, that's the way it was before the industrial revolution and most likely will be again, if we survive. I cannot say I'm optimistic.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:12 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
pstarr wrote:
Zentric I figured out where it is I go morel mushroom hunting and hiking in the Trinity Mountains just south of there. It is truely wtfot-way the f@@k out there. Orleans is a very cool little town south down the Klamath. Yeah I live in Arcata on the coast.
I'm checking the map on Forks of Salmon. Yeah, FoS is definitely in the middle of nowhere - where the nearest town to the west is Arcata on Interstate 5, and to the east is Yreka, on Interstate 15. I wonder which of the two cities FoS identifies with more?
I've been to Arcata. It's impressively progressive. The marsh there is great.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
pstarr wrote:
Whale oil beef hooked! says Paddy.
Oh. If you live near the wine country, I heard most of the vintners are now hiring individuals for soaking corks. If you or someone you know can soak a lot of corks in an hour, the pay is very good.
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
BW, yeah good rants there. But beyond the emotional gratification factor, they point fo fundamental truths.
Yes we need to seal the borders, legal as well as illegal immigration included. Then we need to let the population come down to about 150 million or 100 milllion, and then start letting immigrants in again. This really sucks because immigrants keep our culture from stagnating. The recent waves from Asia and Mexico have been particularly good in terms of revitalizing the work ethic.
---
Me & mine are heading north, though for the usual OPSEC reasons we're not saying where until after we're there. At this point we are zeroing in on a couple of specific locations.
Don't worry, BW, we're not going to Washington.
More news when there's news:-)
---
Other factors to consider when thinking about "place":
Climate change. What are the anticipated effects on the area? Think post-PO heating & AC, or preferably be in a place where you need little heat and no AC. Think about changes in the types of storms and their secondary effects such as mudslides, floods, and so on.
It's easier to heat than to cool. For example Wisconsin gets frigid in the winter, but a house built halfway-underground will have the benefit of 52 degrees Fahrenheit from the earth, year round. In the winter you can use some combination of wood and solar thermal to add 10 degrees plus a sweater & longjohns, or if you're lucky, 20 degrees and run around in your underwear if you like.
Also it's easier to dress for cold than for hot. As soon as the temps get into the 100s, particularly if it's also humid, there is nothing you can do to get rid of body heat except use AC (forget it) or stick your feet into a bucket of cool water. Heat is a killer. The South is doomed.
Natural disasters: Earthquake faults (the dominant reason I'm getting out of the Bay Area). Tornados and hurricanes. Stuff that can wreck a town. Fortunately those morons in Washington did the rest of us a favor by letting New Orleans go all to hell: that is the shape of things to come.
General rule: If you can stay safely inside at home, it's not a disaster it's merely an inconvenience (for example blizzards). If you can't stay safely at home, it's a disaster.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Zentric wrote:
pstarr wrote:
Whale oil beef hooked! says Paddy.
Oh. If you live near the wine country, I heard most of the vintners are now hiring individuals for soaking corks. If you or someone you know can soak a lot of corks in an hour, the pay is very good.
Why would you soak corks? I've bottled wine a few times and we used dry corks. Anyway, I live about 150 miles north of the big vineyard area. No wine here on the coast. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 269 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
gg3 wrote:
BW, yeah good rants there. But beyond the emotional gratification factor, they point fo fundamental truths.
Yes we need to seal the borders, legal as well as illegal immigration included. Then we need to let the population come down to about 150 million or 100 milllion, and then start letting immigrants in again. This really sucks because immigrants keep our culture from stagnating. The recent waves from Asia and Mexico have been particularly good in terms of revitalizing the work ethic.
---
Me & mine are heading north, though for the usual OPSEC reasons we're not saying where until after we're there. At this point we are zeroing in on a couple of specific locations.
Don't worry, BW, we're not going to Washington.
More news when there's news:-)
---
Other factors to consider when thinking about "place":
Climate change. What are the anticipated effects on the area? Think post-PO heating & AC, or preferably be in a place where you need little heat and no AC. Think about changes in the types of storms and their secondary effects such as mudslides, floods, and so on.
It's easier to heat than to cool. For example Wisconsin gets frigid in the winter, but a house built halfway-underground will have the benefit of 52 degrees Fahrenheit from the earth, year round. In the winter you can use some combination of wood and solar thermal to add 10 degrees plus a sweater & longjohns, or if you're lucky, 20 degrees and run around in your underwear if you like.
Also it's easier to dress for cold than for hot. As soon as the temps get into the 100s, particularly if it's also humid, there is nothing you can do to get rid of body heat except use AC (forget it) or stick your feet into a bucket of cool water. Heat is a killer. The South is doomed.
Natural disasters: Earthquake faults (the dominant reason I'm getting out of the Bay Area). Tornados and hurricanes. Stuff that can wreck a town. Fortunately those morons in Washington did the rest of us a favor by letting New Orleans go all to hell: that is the shape of things to come.
General rule: If you can stay safely inside at home, it's not a disaster it's merely an inconvenience (for example blizzards). If you can't stay safely at home, it's a disaster.
I am in Wisconsin and most like this is where I will stay. I have lived here for nearly 50 years and I am familiar with the life and climate here. I know how to stay warm here in the winter and it is much easier to dress to stay warm than to stay cool. Winter is my friend if TSHTF bad because most people who have not lived in a cold climate hate winter. Also, for nearly half the year, I would have natural refrigeration. Plus, where I live there has never been a tornado and so the worst natural disaster I need to worry about is a blizzard and that is easy--you just stay inside. So if it is possible it is probably best to bloom where you are planted because your familiarity and comfort with the region may outweigh the benefits of others.
The borders will never be sealed. The party you might think would do it, the Republicans, talk out of both sides of their mouths at the same time. On the one hand they claim to want to stop illegal immigration, but on the other hand there are too many businesses who support Republicans who love the cheap labor that illegal immigrants provide and their lack of being able to complain about working conditions. Plus, in the 5 years under Bush, fines against companies which hire illegal immigrants has fallen off the table while another 4 million people have illegaly entered the country.
We have illegal immigrants here in western Wisconsin who work in a meat packing plant and for a furniture company and everybody knows about it, the local paper has run stories about it, but here they sitll are. It must be said, even here, these illegal immigrants work at jobs, including labor intensive agricultural work, that legal Americans will not work.
Unless our borders are completely sealed in a physical manner, then it will be like the Maginot Line and illegals will simply go around it. If we did live in fortress America would it become as much as keeping the cowboys in as keeping the Indians out? Illegal immigrants are desperate to get here and will risk their lives to do it. The answer to a 40 foot wall is a 41 foot ladder. As determined as the people of Europe were to get past the Berlin Wall, illegal immigrants will be just as determined to get past the American Wall.
Peak oil aside, it is believed that in 100 years much of Europe will be Muslim because of their higher birthrate. The same will happen here as the Latino population and other minorities will outstrip that of the whites. Most likely the whites will hold onto political and monetary power, so we might end up with a situation like the old South Africa. So I see us solving peak oil before we even come close to solving illegal immigration.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
pstarr wrote:
Zentric wrote:
pstarr wrote:
Whale oil beef hooked! says Paddy.
Oh. If you live near the wine country, I heard most of the vintners are now hiring individuals for soaking corks. If you or someone you know can soak a lot of corks in an hour, the pay is very good.
Why would you soak corks? I've bottled wine a few times and we used dry corks. Anyway, I live about 150 miles north of the big vineyard area. No wine here on the coast.
Beefing hooked, or soaking corks... it's mostly a lifestyle choice. I hope that answers.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
no wine made here on the coast because it is too cool but there is plenty of wine to drink though
Premium wines are coming out of the vineyards on the Klamath in Orleans, and there is a real mini-boom in vine planting on the Trinity River (a tributary of the Klamath) around Willow Creek. The days are blistering hot but the nights are cold. Daily 50-degree temperature change is not uncommon. Like the rest of california there is absolutely no summer rain. so the wines must be irrigated or are on subsurface river water tables. (like the Russian River vineyards in Sonoma) _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
gg3 wrote:
BW, yeah good rants there. But beyond the emotional gratification factor, they point fo fundamental truths.
Yes we need to seal the borders, legal as well as illegal immigration included. Then we need to let the population come down to about 150 million or 100 milllion, and then start letting immigrants in again. This really sucks because immigrants keep our culture from stagnating. The recent waves from Asia and Mexico have been particularly good in terms of revitalizing the work ethic.
I don't get this. I agree with the first sentence. The second alludes to bringing down population levels, and those figures are 150-300 years away given an extremely aggressive curtailment of birth rates.
The third and fourth seem pretty specious to me.
Do immigrants keep our culture from stagnating? To me, this sounds like saying that taking on more passengers on a overloaded 747 is going to keep it from stalling.
Lets say the modern hypercapitalism that I see in America today is stagnating. Sprawl is simply insufficient to keep the housing market going, for instance, or existing immigrant labor is insufficient to keep strawberries and avacados coming to market, or salmon populations from plummeting.
It sounds like a late 19th century Manifest Destiny sentiment. Too much empty land, too many unused resources. White people are flagging carrying the whole enterprise of unbridled capitalism forward. The Whip and Carrot motivational scheme is not working. Lets bring in Mexicans who don't need a living wage or health care... ?
Work ethic? What about the statistics paraded around so joyfully over the last several decades: Americans more productive than ever, working longer hours, taking less vacation. The hightech economy needs lessons from a Banana Republic economy? I've travelled through Mexico. I don't understand one whit of what you're talking about. Ecological and economic desperation is a hell of a motivator. Ok, I get it. Run the economy into the ground and incite class warfare while the natural resource base depletion is accelerated by the influx of desperate manual laborers.
We're going to cure our population problems by inviting solutions from a prolific population of anti-abortion Catholics? Ya right. At the same time, do you think we're helping Mexico by providing a way to siphon off 30 million voting members of the underclass?
Where are you moving to gg3? DisneyWorld?
I'm sorry, but when I hear someone talk about "work ethic" it makes me cringe, because all it is a polemic against an anti-capitalist ethic of life in balance. There is little "ethical" about "work" in America outside the paradigm of extractive capitalism. Within that paradigm, "work ethic" describes the effort to destroy labor unions, import illegals, debase economies and ecologies for personal gain. In essense, "work ethic" in terms of America is defined a'la Wall Street: Greed is Good.
The Strip-mall manufacturers, Wall Mart, corporate lawyers, they've all had great "work ethic" over the last couple decades. Military contractors have really pushed humanity forward with the development of the heat-seeking Cyborg Fark bomb. And of course, who can forget Microsoft, showing us all how good old American Can-Do can reaffirm our collective commitment to domination in domestic competitive enterprise.
So who gets the ire of your judgement? Perhaps its those lazy, good for nothing GM employees? The secretaries at WorldCom? Did the girl down at McDonalds not reheat your Whopper fast enough? The team at Jiffy Lube not screw the drainplug in far enough? Did the hedge trimmer take off for the day before clipping the Azeleas?
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
I go morel mushroom hunting and hiking in the Trinity Mountains just south of there. It is truely wtfot-way the f@@k out there. Orleans is a very cool little town south down the Klamath. Yeah I live in Arcata on the coast.
You can turn in your Mad Max merit badge on the way out the compound blast doors.
