Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Real issue is: what would you do if you were in power?
Party affiliation is pretty much a non issue. The country is in such a mess that there is nothing to be done. It is too late.
Problems:
1)Debt-federal, local, state debt- and pensions and medical obligations
2)Personal debt -credit cards and housing bubble, hedge funds collapse
3)peak oil, peak food , overpopulation, overaging of population, obesity, drug use(illegal and medicines)
4)external competition for jobs, resources, influence from China, Russia,etc.
Basically you have to start over, wipe the slate clean. Tabula rasa.
Maybe movie Twelve Monkeys had it right. Let a virus go and accelerate die off to save what is left of the ecosystem we call earth for a couple thousand hunter gatherers to enjoy in primitive bliss till the next meteorite kills all mammals off and cockroaches become the ultimate future of our wonderful planet. _________________ "The horror, the horror"
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
smallpoxgirl wrote:
Who cares? Good cop vs. Bad cop. The dems may use a little KY before raping you with their night stick, but it's not like it ultimately matters.
Exactly.
All it matters is which of your liberties is most focused on for elimination next.
The fact that anyone thinks there will be a difference is a testimony to the effectiveness of brainwashing and a reflection of what average intelligence does.
Joined: Sep 02, 2004 Posts: 577 Location: Not tellin' anymore
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Most correct selection not shown:
Corporations, career politicians and the wealthy maintain control of the House and the Senate; and the average American citizen loses more constitutional rights, pays more taxes, receives fewer benefits, loses economic status and in the end earns the priveledge of dying overseas protecting the vested interests of corporations, career politicians and the wealthy.
Only the local vote counts to any degree. NiK
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
galacticsurfer wrote:
what would you do if you were in power?
If you've read Tainter's treatise on complexity and collapse, I think we are well past the point where complexity has ceased to be in our best interest. I don't think you can run a country of 300,000,000 people in a way that is beneficial to them. I think we will all benefit greatly from collapsing to a less complex system. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Quote:
1)Debt-federal, local, state debt- and pensions and medical obligations
Balanced Budget Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is needed.
All politicians who drove up the debt because they held shares of it and sought to profit from their own policies at taxpayer expense should have their assets siezed, and what amount gained used to pay down the debt.
End corporate welfare. $200 billion a year saved.
Reagan blew the Social Security money. It's gone. Instead of letting Wall Street loot Americans once the government has finished with this ponzi scheme, kill it outright.
Also to be ended would be the U.S. War on Drugs, the War on Terror, the CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, HSA, ATF, and other bureaucratic money pits would be dismantled. $100 billion/year saved
Kill the prison-industrial complex. Over $40 billion/year saved.
Cut the remaining defense budget by at least 2/3. $250 billion/year saved.
End the resource wars in Iraq. $80 billion/year saved.
Cuts to medicare, medicaid, and other government programs.
Abolish the Federal Reserve and fiat moneyt. Our dollar needs to be backed by something tangible and given value, or else hyperinflation will result.
Freeze the national debt. End all borrowing, and reduce interest to the amount needed to meet inflation, with the stipulation that at minimum half of excess funds will be used to pay it off before any new unnessessary government spending is initiated.
Once the national debt is paid off after 10-15 years, give a giant ass tax cut, from the bottom up. The rich and corporates won't get a dime.
Quote:
2)Personal debt -credit cards and housing bubble, hedge funds collapse
Let it collapse, but also undo Bush's bankruptcy reform. Keep indentured servitude outlawed.
Quote:
3)peak oil, peak food , overpopulation, overaging of population, obesity, drug use(illegal and medicines)
For peak oil, end all oil subsidies, and make sure car makers and oil companies must account for the personal and property damage caused by the pollution their products create. This would make cars and other luxuries reflect their true cost, and they would become expensive. The only way the auto industry would be able to stay afloat would be to offer super efficient 100+ mpg cars or electrics. Evolve or die. Either way is fine by me. Oil consumption would drop rapidly if gas cost $10/gallon directly, instead of Joe Taxpayer paying for the oil wars to protect the oil interests, and the property, medical, and other damaged caused by the pollution associated with it.
Quote:
4)external competition for jobs, resources, influence from China, Russia,etc.
End NAFTA, drop out of the WTO altogether. National sovoreignty must be preserved.
The only way America will ever have a surplus of jobs again is if we stop recognizing the dinosaur corporations as individual people without granting them the responsibilities, and shift to a small business economy. Then there wouldn't be so much worry about in regards to competition from other nations once the Transnationals have gotten their wortheless, bloodsucking asses out of here.
Quote:
Would you consider modifying that to "...the survivors will all benefit...."?
There would only be 'survivors' of some disaster if the current powers that be make it a disaster.
Moving to a less complex system by choice is inherently a move towards maximizing individual liberty. The corporate types and the big government types both fear this heavily. But there are far more common folk than there are rich folk, government folk, or corporate folk. Best of all, Americans are armed, as our Founders intended for them to be. They're supposed to smack their government around a when needed, but they've grown scared. Understandable, considering who has the fighter planes, tanks, and nuclear warheads at their disposal.
The common American must be convinced that moving to a less complex system of government and less complex economy(decreased regulations, decreased big money influence, more participation at the individual level, ect.) is a good thing. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Nice of you guys to destroy this thread by going off topic. Let's all take a deep breath and get back to reality.
Yeah it would be nice if the DEA and the IRS suddenly disappeared, and all the corporate controlled politicos were suddenly replaced by a bunch of self sacrificing, PO aware, Global Warming aware, etc, perfect rulers. But guess what, it's not happening now, and it’s not happening any time in the near future.
This is the game we have to play folks. The only hope we have of a relatively soft landing is by playing within the current framework. Otherwise, most of us, and our children will not survive the hard crash.
So if you want to bitch and moan about how their isn’t any difference between the Repubs and the Dems, which is a view I pretty much agree with, or if you want to rant about how the entire US government needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch, go and start another thread.
Here we are trying to have a civil discussion about the likely outcome of the upcoming US elections.
PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Duke of Indiana _________________ I'd rather get my brains blown out in the wild than wait in terror at the slaughterhouse.
Craig Volk, Northern Exposure, A-Hunting We Will Go, 1991
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Quote:
This is the game we have to play folks. The only hope we have of a relatively soft landing is by playing within the current framework. Otherwise, most of us, and our children will not survive the hard crash.
The problem is that the current framework will not allow for a soft landing. It is a failure. Our current power elite doesn't want to compromise growth or profit; making the preparations for a soft landing will do just that by shifting the economic emphasis away from them and into the hands of the majority. Decentralization away from an oil-based economy before any severe effects of peak oil begin to show scares the major money makers to no end.
The way I see the election carrying out is either a tie(or close to it), or Republican Senate/House due to election tampering. Either way, post election, I will be looking for signs of tampering, even if the Democrats 'win'. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1178 Location: was rwwff
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
I really like this site, even though the owner is a lefty... I think his Senate map is spot-on. I think his house analysis is a bit overly optimistic from his perspective, if only because it shows the TX22 symptom: The Map of Destiny _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
Cutter,
You may be right. But if there isn’t any hope in the current system we all might as well start the day off with a tall glass of Jack Daniels, a bag of BC bud, and a handful of Qualuds.
Now back on topic.
Why do the politicos need to fix the elections when most of the races are over before they even begin.
I was filling out my Absentee Ballot today and realized that accept for a few school board races, and our state representative, there isn’t a single competitive race on the ballot. Hell our US Senator, Dick Lugar, doesn’t even have a Dem opponent. Just a poor, unknown Libertarian.
But man are we getting the propaganda about the state Rep race. I am getting multiple mailings everyday from groups I have never heard of. And the outrageousness of the mailing has to make any intelligent person laugh and laugh. All about gay marriages, abortion, and who will bring home the most pork. If I wasn’t laughing so much, I would have to cry. It’s just pathetic.
Duke of Indiana _________________ I'd rather get my brains blown out in the wild than wait in terror at the slaughterhouse.
Craig Volk, Northern Exposure, A-Hunting We Will Go, 1991
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
AgentR wrote:
I really like this site, even though the owner is a lefty... I think his Senate map is spot-on.. I think his house analysis is a bit overly optimistic from his perspective, if only because it shows the TX22 symptom: The Map of Destiny
I like that site too. But I think he is behind on the VA race. New polls out today show the Repub, Allen, trailing by 3 points, with about 9% undecided. And since undecideds mostly break for the challenger I think Allen is toast.
It doesn't hurt that the Dem challenger has a son serving in Iraq as we speak.
Also, those very racist ads the Repubs are running in TN against Ford may very well backfire on them.
Duke of Indiana _________________ I'd rather get my brains blown out in the wild than wait in terror at the slaughterhouse.
Craig Volk, Northern Exposure, A-Hunting We Will Go, 1991
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1178 Location: was rwwff
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Will The Repubs Hold On, Or Will The Dems Sweep The Elec
duke3522 wrote:
I like that site too. But I think he is behind on the VA race. New polls out today show the Repub, Allen, trailing by 3 points, with about 9% undecided. And since undecideds mostly break for the challenger I think Allen is toast.
I don't like calling things that are that close, so I think he has the right method, just draw it like the demonstratably non-partisan polls dictate, occassionally discounting an extreme outlier. Basically, its been going between 48-52 and 52-48 for the past couple weeks.
In any event, all the likely outcomes result in a paralized congress; whether Pelosi gets to be annoying from the speaker's chair or not. It is interesting to note all the effort being made to announce that we'll be standing down (sorta) in 12-18 months; politically, it makes it much more difficult for the Dems to claim any part of the stand-down as their own; not that they would have had much chance at it in either case. Republicans during Clinton don't get credit for the budget surplusses, nor do the Dems(in congress) get the blame for the bad numbers during Carter and Reagan. Good or Ill, Presidents always get the result.
Something else interesting to consider, the Dems can't repeal anything without the president's signature, but if they end up slightly in control, will they be willing to trade unrestricted Iraq funding for repeal of the Habeus portions of the MCA? Could be fun to watch that dynamic. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6382 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: Hunter for President: All militarism, all the time
Ya gotta give him credit. He's making it very clear that he wants the U.S. to be even more militaristic than it is now. He's coming right out and saying it with absolutely no equivocating whatsoever:
...the California Republican Congressman who chairs the House Armed Services Committee declared his plans to run for president in 2008...
..."I believe national security and a strong military are more important issues now than they have ever been. With China an emerging superpower and the North Koreans and Iranians acquiring more advanced weapons systems, we are living in an increasingly dangerous world."
"I will represent the most important aspect of the Republican trademark, which is strong national security."
One can only wonder what this guy would be like as President. He might make us all long for the good old "moderate" Neocon BushCo era... _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Last edited by Zardoz on Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Hunter for President: All-militarism, all the time
His monetary sources are almost limitless. He stands as great a chance as anyone thanks to our political system. Such a sad day for America. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1787 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Hunter for President: All militarism, all the time
Zardoz wrote:
He might make us all long for the good old "moderate" Neocon BushCo era...
Good god.
And I really needed to get some sleep tonight... _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
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