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elocs
Heavy Crude
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Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 269
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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compared to other fuels? I need it for somebody who thinks corn ethanol is the greatest thing since sliced bread. When I try to do a search on that specifically I get threads than are many pages long. I know I have read it here, but I didn't save the post. Googling has been no help either.
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Aaron
800 lb Gorilla
Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 6410
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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http://www.energybulletin.net/21064.html
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NEOPO
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Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 4142
Location: THE MATRIX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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I dont suggest that PM is 100% correct yet it is mainstream and many people subscribe to it.
Crunching The Numbers On Alternative Fuels
| Quote: | | Cynics claim that it takes more energy to grow corn and distill it into alcohol than you can get out of the alcohol. However, according to the DOE, the growing, fermenting and distillation chain actually results in a surplus of energy that ranges from 34 to 66 percent. |
a 34 percent surplus is the same as saying it takes 3 "wasted/used" units of energy to get 4 units of energy or an EROEI of 1.33 to 1.
Add to this the BTU discrepancy that further lowers the EROEI unless the consumers are driving E85 only vehicles as FFV's are just FFV's with a BTU loss.
another kicker:
| Quote: | | One acre of corn can produce 300 gal. of ethanol per growing season. So, in order to replace that 200 billion gal. of petroleum products, American farmers would need to dedicate 675 million acres, or 71 percent of the nation's 938 million acres of farmland, to growing feedstock. Clearly, ethanol alone won't kick our fossil fuel dependence--unless we want to replace our oil imports with food imports. |
and I can just imagine what mother nature has to say about this.
Lastly, How has Brazil become the "model" of ethanol success???
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nth
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 1976
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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NEOPO,
You should also add the insane amount of fertilizers, pesticides, and other chemicals required for all this corn crop. |
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NEOPO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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I know but it is quite easy for some people to reach the point of information overload 
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elocs
Heavy Crude
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Joined: Mar 04, 2006
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Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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| NEOPO wrote: | | I know but it is quite easy for some people to reach the point of information overload |
Well, I think information is power. One of my problems with doing a search about corn ethanol is all of the more recent rah-rah promoting of it which show up on the early pages of a Google search. I have read much about it here, but it seems that so much is commonly known about the negatives of corn ethanol that I don't see as many posts about it anymore. |
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nth
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 1976
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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elocs,
Just scan through Mother of all Biofuel thread for links.
Or just google Pimentel and ethanol. |
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elocs
Heavy Crude
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Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 269
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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| nth wrote: | elocs,
Just scan through Mother of all Biofuel thread for links.
Or just google Pimentel and ethanol. |
I know about the Mother of all Biofuel thread, all 53 some pages. When I did a search, that is what I got rather than any specific post in it that had the info I wanted. I should have saved some links before, but I didn't. At least not about the EROEI of corn ethanol. I'll try Pimentel though. |
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sch_peakoiler
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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| elocs wrote: | | nth wrote: | elocs,
Just scan through Mother of all Biofuel thread for links.
Or just google Pimentel and ethanol. |
I know about the Mother of all Biofuel thread, all 53 some pages. When I did a search, that is what I got rather than any specific post in it that had the info I wanted. I should have saved some links before, but I didn't. At least not about the EROEI of corn ethanol. I'll try Pimentel though. |
Sorry If I got you wrong and you already tried this, but when you search there is a switch "show results as topic/post" at the bottom. so if you choose post you will get links to specific post in the thread and not the thread. Just in case maybe you do not that yet.
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MonteQuest
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Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: 13460
Location: Sedona, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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| elocs wrote: | | I know about the Mother of all Biofuel thread, all 53 some pages. When I did a search, that is what I got rather than any specific post in it that had the info I wanted. I should have saved some links before, but I didn't. At least not about the EROEI of corn ethanol. I'll try Pimentel though. |
From the optimistic end, 1.67:1 is the highest number ever stated by the USDA. The more common number is 1.34:1.
Pimental says EROEI <1. An energy sink.
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lakeweb
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 248
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Anyone have a link for EROEI for corn ethanol |
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| Aaron wrote: | | http://www.energybulletin.net/21064.html |
Also this one with a link to the Farrel Report.
Reply to Cobb's article on net energy
Using current production numbers and an eroei of 1.3, The U.S. total production amounts to one tenth of one quad.
The world demands 175 quads of liquids.
Best, Dan. |
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