Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1211 Location: Last outpost of Civilisation
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
coyote wrote:
a summary and a question
The purpose of this post is to create a thread in which different aspects of the sustainability crisis the human race is facing may be discussed in relation to each other. Each of the crises listed below has been discussed on this site individually; but I wanted to create a thread in which they're all listed together, since I believe they're related, and since we're unfortunately going to have to deal with all of them shortly. I've chosen the Environment forum for this thread, as I believe that peak oil, along with the other issues discussed, is an issue of sustainability. And I have a question.
1. Peak Oil (and the Olduvai Gorge). This is the main topic of this site, and we're all pretty familiar with the concept of nonrenewable energy source depletion. Given the lack of scalable alternatives to hydrocarbon energy sources such as petroleum and natural gas, our transportation, shipping, electricity production, car culture and global economy are all in serious trouble. Substitutability guarantees that all energy sources and end products will be impacted. The trouble is not short-term: it has been theorized that our current globalized financial capitalist system relies on interest and constant growth, and cannot conceivably continue without increasing energy production -- which peak oil makes impossible. So it could be a long, long ride down into the dark. (This depression should also do a good job of making sure we don't have the fiscal resources to deal with the other crises effectively, and possibly even discourage any attempt.) Hydrocarbon depletion also carries significant worries concerning food production (not to mention shipping); not only in the loss of soil inputs, but also in the economic competition of food production with biofuels production. Per-capita grain production is already faltering, a trend that can only get worse after the peak. There are questions as to whether our global population can continue at its current level after the peak, and resource wars have arguably already begun. (No links -- search this site.)
2. Global Warming. It's been argued whether humans are to blame for it. I believe we are, but the bottom line is that one way or the other it's happening. Greenland is toast, and so is the Amazon (which gets much of its water from the disappearing glaciers of the Andes). Coastlines will change and ecosystems around the world will be altered irrevocably. There will be massive numbers of coastal refugees. We've all seen the news. I won't go on. (No links -- read your newspaper.)
3. Desertification, salinization and loss of arable topsoil. The Middle East is already lost. China is going up in dust; the Sahara is spreading rapidly; cropland is degrading in Central Asia, South America and Mexico. Arable topsoil is slowly disappearing, from both agriculture-caused erosion and conversion to urban and suburban use, a loss that may well accelerate when peak oil reduces the amount of fossil fuel inputs to the soil.
4. Loss of biodiversity. We depend upon the stability and productivity of the natural world; and the stability and productivity of the natural world depend on biodiversity. We are seeing the sixth great extinction in the history of the planet, and it's happening way faster than the others. Forget for the moment the staggering tragedy of losing so much of the natural beauty of the wild. Think instead of the fact that we claim something on the order of thirty trillion dollars worth of goods and services from the natural world every single year. As biodiversity crashes, these goods and services will become increasingly unreliable, as ecosystems around the world become increasingly prone to boom-and-bust cycles. We may see the ecological collapse of one region... after another... after another. More refugees.
5. Aquifer drawdown. And oh, this one is a killer, though most are still unaware of it. China, India and parts of Africa are already facing a potable water crisis for their populations that no one seems to have a solution for. (We're waiting to find out what's going to happen with Australia's great drought.) In some parts of the world, water tables are falling by several meters every year. In the United States, parts of the Ogalalla aquifer have dropped over thirty meters. Seventy percent of the water we pump goes to irrigation. And just like oil, water will only become more expensive and difficult to pump post-peak. The topic of oil resource wars comes up quite a bit here; but we may see a day when potable water is worth far more than petroleum in some parts of the world. This by itself is conceivably a catastrophe of epic proportions.
6. The death of the world's oceans. This is scary. Not only in the decimation of the world's fisheries, though that is bad enough -- a huge part of humanity depends on seafood for survival -- but even more fundamentally in the acidification of the world's oceans. The oceans are absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere at a staggering rate, and will continue to do so for decades, even if we were to cease all emissions tomorrow morning. (As with the extinction event, we're definitely causing this: believe in anthropogenically-caused global warming or not, as ye will; but there's no question that CO2 is acidifying the oceans.) Phytoplankton are the very foundation of the marine food web, and we're attacking them. How bad would it get if this level of the web were to collapse? Fertilizer and partially-treated sewage runoff in massive amounts is also leading to a resurgence of the primordial and highly toxic bacteria that once ruled the anaerobic seas; and with lessened competition from decimated fish populations, the bacteria are now making another go of it. The oceans may be fundamentally changed by the halfway point of this century. And this will certainly have a massive impact on us.
There are other topics not covered here, but related: general environmental degradation, including deforestation, chemical pollution, sulfur dioxide, etc. But those listed above, I think, are the biggies.
---
The reason all this is so alarming is that the convergence of these crises looks to be pretty tight, with all of them hitting us pretty hard within the next half-century or so. (Note, from the links: desertification: "should present trends continue, within 30 to 40 years, over half of the African continent, much of Central Asia, the majority of southern and eastern South America, most of central and western North America and about 90 percent of Australia will become desert"; biodiversity: "up to one-fifth of all living species could disappear within 30 years"; aquifer drawdown: "nearly all the 3 billion people to be added by 2050 being born in developing countries where water is already scarce"; oceans: "Seafood May Be Gone by 2048"; peak oil: probable near-term, definitely within 30 years; global warming: 10 years to act, 30 years for drastic effects to be felt.)
Can we possibly deal with all these things at the same time? Any one of them would be a challenge. Some are already making themselves felt: energy scarcity and global warming have been making some headlines. I've referred to the current era as being 'the most interesting of all times' (both as in the Chinese curse, and as bittersweet candy for news junkies like me). I don't think the human race has ever faced a situation like this before. Possibly the Toba eruption, which nearly extincted us. But certainly not since the advent of civilization.
I believe that all of these catastrophes have the same underlying causes: exponential growth, human overpopulation, social overcomplexity, short-term thinking, an overconsumptive lifestyle, hubris, greed, ignorance and apathy. But my question in this thread is not about causes so much as solutions. Solutions to individual crises have been addressed in various threads here; but a possible solution to one crisis tends to ignore or possibly even negatively impact another. For instance, biofuels might (always assuming a positive EROEI, of course) help mitigate somewhat the effects of peak oil; but the production of same carries significant threats to biodiversity and food production. Coal production also might help with energy scarcity (for a while), but is far too risky in its impact on global warming. Switching to wind and solar power helps with global warming, but really doesn't scalably address peak oil. Family planning and education can reduce birth rates, but the associated increase in lifestyle tends to lead to higher per capita consumption.
So, my question: first of all, is there a solution or basket of solutions that can possibly address this storm we're facing? Or is it so late in the game that the opportunities have slipped by us one by one, and we'll now be forced to simply sit tight and hope to weather the times ahead? And, of course, if you believe solutions exist, then what are they? Some may believe that an education-driven paradigm shift will enable us to change our ways in time. Some might mention powerdown, permaculture or a switch to nuclear energy. Others, such as Derrick Jensen, believe that civilization is destructive and unsustainable by its very nature, and any solution must include bringing it down.
I'm interested in any responses. I don't particularly like being a doomer.
Gerald O. Barney wrote:
What we do in this century will be remembered forever - or not at all.
So -- what do we do?
Hi coyote - you have a hell of a brief here (
I would say that what we face in the Western world right now is a 'Spiritual' crisis. I don't mean that we need to find some new gods or religion to 'vote' for, but you point at something that pierces the heart of our belief system, and, as well as these problems in the world at large, we are also bleeding from an inner wound that we do not know how to heal.
Maybe if we could all take some time out, search within ourselves, re-discover that which we have lost (in our crazy quest for material advancement?) we might (one day) figure a way out of the mess? There has to be one, somewhere...
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
JPL wrote:
Maybe if we could all take some time out, search within ourselves, re-discover that which we have lost (in our crazy quest for material advancement?) we might (one day) figure a way out of the mess? There has to be one, somewhere...
JPL
I agree, JPL. I think what's needed is a complete change in social/environmental consciousness, so that the average person can effect change, with the collective result of that being a huge reduction in our ecological "footprint" and the conservation of resources. We need to get the word out as much as possible, EDUCATE, make people think. The dominant advertising/consuming chain propels most of the population in the opposite direction - more for me, everything bigger, better, newer. If we could somehow convince the majority that simpler can be better, and even necessary...
But how to do this? With most of the population worldwide living in large cities, there is such a disconnect between people and the physical world - a lot of us basically only SEE that which is within our urban boundaries. So many individuals don't know and/or don't care what's happening to the oceans or the economy, and what their contribution is to many of these converging disasters. If we could halt the wasteful uses of resources and discourage excessive consumerism somehow, we might be able to manage resource depletion, environmental destruction, food supply issues and debt accumulation.
Someone on this board, I think it may be Island Crow, has as her/her signature, "Live simply so that others may simply live". That statement is good advice, whether your goal is a humanitarian one or more aligned with self-preservation.
Thanks, Coyote, for this thought-provoking thread.
Joined: Nov 24, 2004 Posts: 75 Location: West Lafayette, IN U.S.A.
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Many, many good posts in this thread. Thanks everyone!
Ramble: ON
I haven't gotten so far as to think of "saving" most of humanity. These are my general thoughts on upcoming times.
Everything will grow more expensive by increments, causing us to begin to do without certain necessities to maintain our luxuries. (I already see this daily.) First, things like medical insurance and regular healthcare. People will die (usually slowly) from treatable things for lack of funds. This happens now, only no one cares that it happens to rednecks and inner-city blacks/Hispanics. The middle class is being driven out so that it'll be rich/poor, and no rich person does without anything. I think there will be a trend towards fixing clothes/making them last longer, but no one will give up their tech gadgets without a fight. (Make sense of that! But its what happens.)
More young people than ever in history have attained higher education, so most of us are used to roommates. I expect as we age and things get expensive, it won't be unusual to have a bunch of family or friends in one house/apartment. I expect home gardening to have a boom/bust and a leveling off. (Many people will try it, most will fail without inputs that are too expensive and give up.) Those who stick with it may earn some clout but need help keeping thieves from their gardens.
In an emergency, one saves self and tribe. As times grow leaner, people will decide who their tribes are, and I expect more obvious racism/class-ism/etc. Bleeding heart sentiments will run up against the wall of scarcity, and perhaps they'll come up with novel solutions I don't see at the moment.
As has been mentioned, there will be a migration towards the rural areas and people taking a stab at farming. It won't necessarily go so well for 10 years or so, but we'll adapt. Climate will change, and we'll change what we plant where, and when. The BIGGEST issue to contend with, bar none, will be the opportunity for a large-scale genuine spiritual shift, OR the emergence of a sham religious leader/movement into that same power vacuum. The USA will be full of kids like me, raised to believe that there's more to being "successful" and "worthy" than just having a job and surviving. We who were/are raised on dreams of space shuttles, Star Trek, hydroponics feeding the world, and designer genetics. How does a mind trained to stretch the limits of its imagination at the furthest limits of playing god learn to be content as a farmer/hobbyist?
Not f*&%ing easily. I speak from (my continuing) experience.
In my youth, I had on/off desires for a monkish existence, so there are times when the idea of having a small farm, chickens, rabbits, bees, trees, space and hobbies feels like heaven. But every night when I look up at the stars, I still feel the urge to fly "out there," see and touch other planets, like I've wanted all my life, and I can't give up hoping that we'll find a way to keep the scientists and researchers and technomages up and running. In addition, I was raised moderately middle-class, and there are expectations of what constitutes a "good enough" way to live. I expect that across the US, people have these expectations, and that the facts of change will not work with them. Can you see yourself as successful, happy, and more than good enough even if all your family/neighbors don't?
Anyway, as people are realizing all this, as they downsize, as they begin to seek some sort of reason/religion, we will continue to pound the heads of anyone we can who has some resources we could use. The armed services will keep offering enticements to get young people to sign up to be killed in dangerous areas. Eventually this draft thing may well go through, then we'll be forced to it. (Or rather, probably only guys for the first while.) My mental picture of the ever-tightening vise never really assumes an incident bad enough to warrant martial law or raiding bands of thieves, though I do expect low crime/thievery to abound. I don't know how well specific intentional communities will do, but I do expect places with solid communities to be able to pull together and do okay.
I hope to see a re-emergence of old computers adapted for small jobs as tech stuff becomes scarce. (My grandpa still has a running Commodore 64, upon which I happily played games and even wrote a few papers as a kid/teen. (I'm currently 26.)) I hope for the best in the green house technology/building department, but I think a lot of people are just going to suffer through the decreasing capabilities of a modern house, though the kids who come after me might see a big boom in building your own sustainable house.
I think Walmart employees and fast food workers, etc will be the new serfs of this world, and I fight every day not to be one. I think changes of all sorts, from backyard chickens and gardens to big government restrictions is going to be perceived as an admission of "we're poor" and will be rejected as such, unless it can be made "fun". After all, <sarcasm> every American is a millionaire in waiting, and millionaires don't raise chickens. </sarcasm> (Though if they did, wouldn't *that * be something! As mindlessly as people ape what they see famous people do on TV, it might be a road for big change.)
So, to recap, people will continue to do what they do, then only do part of it, then screw over anyone they can to keep doing it, then stop when they can't pull it off anymore. Then they'll do what they have to and whine the whole way. I'm sure there are leverage points in this process for anyone with desires to be a leader, but most people annoy me, so I'll leave it to you.
Most of my interest lies in the change of consciousness. I really hope to see something perhaps Hobbit-like, but I worry we'll get Dark Ages Europe. *shrug*
Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1165 Location: Seattle, Wa.
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
These are good insights that humans need a shift of consciousness to be able to transform toward a sustainable culture. Now really try to imagine this happening voluntarily on a collective basis?
When have cultures evolved and transformed in the past? During stable peaceful times or during times of war, environmental stress or in response to some external challenging pressures like competition or migration or recovery from famines and disease.
What will mobilize our modern society toward radical reform?
A voluntary collective decision toward a new game plan?
Or in response to external stresses and hardships brought upon ourselves from the imbalances we have created?
The symptoms and consequences of our unsustainability can become our greatest ally and key toward radical change. Nothing else on the horizon seems to have the potential power to transform us.
Tens of thousands of species will be martyred and become the sacraficial lambs to embed sustainability in future human societies.
It seems unavoidable that we pass through this. I don't see any other way. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Well put. And gardening is very difficult, especially sans hose and fertilizer. Good news is that right now I couldn't pay someone to take something out of my garden. My sister teaches kids about gardening and she said when she moved to California she found that kids were afraid to eat anything off of plants. Not exactly the best start given what the youth will most likely encounter as adults.
I'm going to have to disagree with the people moving to rural areas thing. From what I've read it seems that people typically flock to the cities in hard times. Which makes sense to me, I can't imagine picking up my stuff and just heading off into the country with the expectation of becoming an instant farmer, this coming from someone dubbed the "city farmer". Check out Dmitry Orlov's description of the collapse of Russia, lots of great clues to help prepare for hard times. My favorite is the alcohol still, a futuristic ATM of sorts.
Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1165 Location: Seattle, Wa.
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
cmlek wrote:
Everything will grow more expensive by increments, causing us to begin to do without certain necessities to maintain our luxuries. (I already see this daily.) First, things like medical insurance and regular healthcare. People will die (usually slowly) from treatable things for lack of funds. This happens now, only no one cares that it happens to rednecks and inner-city blacks/Hispanics. The middle class is being driven out so that it'll be rich/poor, and no rich person does without anything. I think there will be a trend towards fixing clothes/making them last longer, but no one will give up their tech gadgets without a fight. (Make sense of that! But its what happens.)
We assume that as we go into economic decline we will greedily try to grab the dwindling resource base until we fight eachother to the point of exterminating ourselves.
If you visit cultures in developing countries that live day to day and do not feel entitled to a stable life you can observe some interesting cultural traits. Most people in poor countries live with the uncertainties of disease and resource limitations but do so often with a happiness and generosity because they do not feel entitled to any of these things but rather grateful for their health and full bellies. The concept of health insurance for example is something only the last couple of generations of modern humans have grown to see as a normative right to have. It is the sense of entitlement to a long life that creates a society that becomes fearful and starts to demand it.
I would like to propose the idea that as we go into resource decline and society starts to lose guaratees like health insurance, abundant food and guaranteed material wealth that we will also lose slowly the sense of entitlement for these things and gradually return to a more humble and grateful appreciation for life. When uncertainties like disease and hunger and hardships return to the human experience we may very well become more accepting of life's impermanence. That could allow for a spiritual shift. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Orlov's slide show was amazingly dark and very funny. I agree completely that things are getting so screwed up and wierd around here that collapse is imminent. Those of us on the fringes will be okay, maybe. Nobody is going to be okay. I think we lack the dark Russian humor that probably helps people through hard times. We'll have to work on that.
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Revi wrote:
Orlov's slide show was amazingly dark and very funny. I agree completely that things are getting so screwed up and wierd around here that collapse is imminent. Those of us on the fringes will be okay, maybe. Nobody is going to be okay. I think we lack the dark Russian humor that probably helps people through hard times. We'll have to work on that.
Agreed, people in the US are pyschologically completely unprepared. The hardest times most people know is getting the Nano when you wanted a PS3 (Ouch!). And most of those that do know hard times, certainly don't know self sufficiency, usually highly dependent on the government. I'm not saying it's their fault, that's just the way it is.
Oh well, less people, less competition for resources. You won't see me shedding any tears for the people that were buying Escalade's while they laughed at me for investing my resources into hard assets and preparation education.
We're a nation of consumers now, I think the key to future survival will be turning ourselves into producers. _________________ Survive the economic fallout...
PeakEconomy.com
Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1165 Location: Seattle, Wa.
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Revi wrote:
We'll have to work on that.
You don't acheive that dark humour by working on it. You acheive it by living through it. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Joined: Oct 24, 2006 Posts: 115 Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
I want to start out by saying that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Connecting the dots on the issues is very important. If we continue to try and treat isolated symptoms without understanding the interrelated whole - and more importantly the roots of the problem - then we are doomed to keep applying poultices to an ever sicker patient.
I firmly believe famine, economic system failures, geopolitical resource conflicts (nice words for WAR), and rampant pandemic disease are the inevitable conclusion of population overshoot that was created from a rapid gluttonous infusion of carbon fuels. I'm not a particularly religious person - but it seems the four horseman of the apocalypse are riding on the horizon. They have come before - civilizations have failed from over extending beyond resource carrying capacity. They are in our historical texts because our ancestors desired to share the lessons learned. Many have made mention of the hope that we would similarly leave artifacts of good information to keep our ancestors from repeating our likely mistake.
Sadly, human self interest overrides logical sacrifices - and it is likely future "messages of wisdom" will likely be ignored as well.
The good news to be found in all of this - is that the ride down the steep slope does not necessarily have to be a direct and immediate drop off the cliff. Some events may make that inevitable - such as a truly abrupt and catalysmic climate change or nuclear war for example. However, absent those kinds of "triggers", the shift down can be very very painful, but not necessarily end in near human extinction.
Some of the bad news items could actually prove beneficial. Others have already noted in this thread that bad things will have to happen before anyone will have sufficient motivation to overcome that "self interest" factor. Economic failures will be horrific but a serious "depression" as opposed to a complete economic collapse would force people to return to more realistic models of production for needs (rather than "wants") using simpler more sustainable solutions to achieve those results. Local economies based on real goods exchanged for real services or goods received would have to return. Some will be incapable of adapting and die. But many will make the shift as required. Those who paid attention ahead of time may even become teachers and valuable community resources. It IS hard to grow subsistence level food production with limited (or no) energy inputs and a climate that has become wildly unpredictable. Those with these very real and difficult skills might well be guarded carefully by other people. I don't know about you - but I am working on becoming one of these "important sources" for seed and skill. It does NOT happen by reading a book or two. Years and years of practicing it as if the day were here now is required.
My fervent wish is that the events unfold in a manner that allows for adaption to occur. Not necessarily probable - but possible.
Thanks again to everyone for your thoughtful contributions to this discussion. Coyote your initial post was an excellent summation - bravo.
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 1185 Location: Richmond, VA, Pale Blue Dot
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Dammit guys...
I was having such a good day...
edit: stickied for good measure! _________________ "If you are a real seeker after truth, it's necessary that at least once in your life you doubt all things as far as possible"-Rene Descartes
"When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth"-Sherlock Holmes
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
It is the convergence of these environmental disasters combined with political intransigence which leads me to believe we may become extinct. I don't believe it is inevitable, but it is a significant probability. I have seen this listing of converging problems and see reason for great pessimism.
I have to wonder if this is a repeating story throughout the universe. How many species have evolved and developed to a certain point, only to self-destruct or be wiped out by natural disasters? How many dead planets once held life?
There is a resilience in humans which provides some reasons for optimism. We have come back from the brink of self-destruction before. I think of the brinksmanship of the Cold War. We have survived plagues and famines. We have had ingenuity in difficult times. I don't think what we are facing has any comparison though.
We don't just have to make a left turn, a right turn or even a sharp angled turn. We need to do the equivalent of a 180 deg turn in a huge battle ship.
The good news is that some of the solutions for peak oil/energy are also solutions for global warming. Powerdown, renewables, etc. The bad news is that global warming constrains our energy choices to mitigate peak oil. Coal would be great if . . .
I feel as if I was on the Titanic with only a few people able to see this great big iceberg in front of us and on either side. Neither the Captain, nor many of the officers can see the icebergs and the Captain keeps saying, "This ship is unsinkable."
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1800 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
Thank you all so much for the outstanding replies. I want to respond to some of the ideas presented much more carefully when I have more time.
Turmoil, thank you for the sticky. It's an honor. _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Converging Catastrophes
JPL wrote:
I would say that what we face in the Western world right now is a 'Spiritual' crisis. I don't mean that we need to find some new gods or religion to 'vote' for, but you point at something that pierces the heart of our belief system
A poignant point. I read a book once (and keep reading it) called The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are by Alan Watts. The book was written 40 years ago, but is still rolling off the printing press in large numbers, because more and more people are coming to your conclusion. This book, more than any other I have read, shows how far off track we've gone.
Despite all of our technology and fancy machines, I contend that future historians will consider this a dark age. There was no "enlightenment." What was the so called "enlightenment?" More or less, some people sat around and decided that the universe operates by the same principles as a swiss clock. Which couldn't be further from the truth. The "enlightenment" was the birth of the industrial megamachine. The industrial megamachine that is now throwing the climate in to chaos and threatening to snuff out not just us, but all life on earth. I don't see any light in that do you? But don't smoke, get some fake *** and take your vitamins. I find the huge chasm between our obsession over personal health and complete disregard for environmental health to be surreal.
Present day physicists and ecologists are starting to point out how completely wrong we've been, but the dye is cast. It's not looking like we're going to change this horse midstream.
Take for instance people that come on here and say we need to go to "space." Implying that we're not already in space, as if there was the earth and everything else was space. Holy Sheep Sh*t! We're already in space, we're way out in the universe. Even if we did go to "space", and just kept on going and going and going, we'd end up right where we started (time is not linear but cyclical, another one of the great delusions of the unenlightenment). So if you've ever dreamt of going to space, today is your lucky day, you're already there. What's out there is in here. The most remarkable achievement of the space program was the pictures we got of earth.
Why are hallucinogens illegal in our industrial society, but a common element of native cultures from North to South America and around the world? Are we trying to hide something from ourselves? What possibly could these plants be telling us that is illegal?
Latest radio interview on Sunday was with Alan Watt. Money magic and Words.
Plus just an overall great site. Lots of interesting articles and interviews
Check it out. Hmmm! Think I'll change my sig line after 2 and a bit years _________________ Let us make him who shall nourish and sustain us. What shall we do to be invoked; to be remembered in the earth.
We have tried with our first creatures but we could not make them venerate us.
So let us try to make obedient respectful beings who shall
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