Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject: It makes me so mad!!!!!!!!!
I'm new to your site but I must say its refreshing to find another site for like minded individuals such as myself. I'm so angry that so many people refuse to acknowledge our growing ecological concerns. I mean with so many of our children and innocent Iraqis dying how can people just be so stupid about the enviroment. They don't care about how dependent we are on fossil fuel because they can still go fill up they're hummers. they won't start careing untill they don't have the gas to drive they're fat kids to they're soccer game. Everywhere I look people are wasting water which just blows my mind, and nobody seems to care about conserving electrisity anymore. I thought we as a people where getting better, I thought we as a people where evolving but then they go and re-elect that imbicile W. I'm disgusted to be associated with the ignorent bastards who call themselves Americans.
Joined: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 413 Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject:
If you were just a little more coherent, and grammatically correct, that could have been the Peak Oil Manifesto. I'm totally with you. Unfortunately, just about anyone know isn't on this board, is not. They'll be sorry when their world comes to a screeching halt all around them. So will most of us, I'm afraid. Only difference is that we'd know it was coming. _________________ Vision without action is a dream, action without vision is a nightmare.
Joined: Jul 14, 2004 Posts: 404 Location: The Motor City
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:
Pete, I hear you, brother. I snapped in a similar way yesterday, but restrained myself from going a huge rant in here. I have been repeating the peak oil mantra on other forums for almost a year now, and no one cares, not even on political boards. If people who debate politics won't listen to what is the foundation for much of the world's conflict (securing resouces), what about the average idiot who only cares about watching tonight's episode of "reality" television?
I am at a point where I don't care if the U.S. goes to hell -- I hope the rest of the world declares economic war on us and crushes our economy. Then, peak oil can deliver the knockout. I know that is defeatist, and maybe I will come back around to being excited to spread the peak oil message , but I simply cannot maintain the positive attitude that some people on here have. I don't have a wife or kids, so I shouldn't even care all that much, but the funny thing is that most of my married friends with kids are the ones who won't listen. If only they knew how bad it was going to be for the young ones..
I am at a point where I don't care if the U.S. goes to hell -- I hope the rest of the world declares economic war on us and crushes our economy. Then, peak oil can deliver the knockout.
Which will sentence millions to death - some due to lack of medical care, others due to increased crime, and still others from the disease which is a consequence of hunger and other physical stress.
Joined: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 483 Location: Cheshire, England
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:41 pm Post subject:
Isn't it as easy to fall into the "the end of the world is upon us" mode of thinking, as it is to fall into "narr, this isn't happening" mode of thinking?
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4722 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject:
I used to post on MSN's Slate Magazine...thing. I learned about Peak Oil and tried in vain to tell others about the coming crisis. They ignored me and decided that the swift boat veterans were more interesting. There was only one other person who knew about PO he finally gave up and I followed suit. I almost want to say that telling others is a waste of time. But if everyone followed that motto 3 months ago, I wouldn't know about PO. So even though it costs friends/sanity/sleep we have to fight the good fight. We have a responsibility to teach those around us. We hold the key. If we don't give them the key, they will run head first into a solid oak door.
Then again, chaos makes great TV .
But chaos would take out cable and we wouldn't even get to watch it on Fox .
Isn't it as easy to fall into the "the end of the world is upon us" mode of thinking, as it is to fall into "narr, this isn't happening" mode of thinking?
Opposite ends of the same stick?
Yeah, I think so. That's where my mind goes. But I can't for the life of me figure out how we're going to sidestep this. Economy contracts, people lose jobs, less money to spend, so economy contracts again. Repeat until broke.
As this happens, the stock market loses value. Investments drop, so people are less apt to invest in businesses. Business declines. People lose jobs. Less jobs means less income to spend on shiny trinkets. Lower sales, less profits, more layoffs...
Stock prices drop, people sell out so stock prices drop more, so more people sell. Look at the Nikkei chart for the last twenty friggin years. That entire market has been eating itself the whole time. This can happen and has happened before, and will happen again. Probably here.
I dunno. It's gonna suck.
You tell me. How are we going to get out of this mess?
Joined: Nov 23, 2004 Posts: 119 Location: Nottingham UK
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:45 am Post subject:
Tyler_JC wrote:
I almost want to say that telling others is a waste of time. But if everyone followed that motto 3 months ago, I wouldn't know about PO. So even though it costs friends/sanity/sleep we have to fight the good fight. We have a responsibility to teach those around us. We hold the key. If we don't give them the key, they will run head first into a solid oak door.
I was introduced to the concept of peak oil and it's possible ramifications about 2 months ago by someone (a very knowledgeable guy from the oil industry) posting in another forum. Despite his excellent presentation of the facts, there were still a number of people who denied that peak oil would be a problem, I have him to thank for opening my eyes.
My own attempts to tell others (those who I think have the intellegence to grasp the meaning of peak oil) have met with either denial or apathy, despite this I will continue to spread the word.
Joined: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 483 Location: Cheshire, England
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:23 am Post subject:
>You tell me. How are we going to get out of this mess?
I'm not sure. I agree that at first glance it looks rather bleak, however it is possible to argue that there are a couple of compensating factors -
1. Around PO, when energy suddenly becomes more expensive, many many more people (with better brains than ours) will start to apply themselves to the problem.
2. We are terribly wasteful of energy because it has always been so cheap. After PO, when energy is expensive, there's suddenly a big incentive to be efficient. If oil depletes at 2% per anum after peak, but we compensate for that by becoming 1.9% more energy efficient per anum, things don't look so bad. Not good, but not "the end of the world as we know it is just around the corner."
i'm sure "we" wil stabilize. i'm just not sure what's going to happen to me, personally, before we get there, and what my life will be like, if i don't prepare for losing all my assets (oh wait, i don't have any!), employment prospects (already happened), health care (already happened), shelter, and if it comes to it, food sources. god i'm halfway there already!
the thing is if things are going to go on the way they have been, and there is some point to investing money in american funds, and there is any possibility that social security might actually exist when i need it to retire, well, it's worth it to finish my education to get my NEW career off the ground (assuming it doesn't follow my last one down the recession toilet) and continue to live on "normal" terms.
but IF there is any real possibility of everything going south, and considering that i am already a gnat's ass away from landing on the curb and running from fascist police forces if they do, or fighting the madding mob for a bite to eat and clubbing little old ladies (oh wait, i'll be the little old lady soon, sorry) for their rations - well - if i am at least likely to lose any prospects of GETTING any kind of viable retirement benefit and health care - it would behoove me to think about what i will need to do to leave this system in a way that optimizes first my own, and second my local communities' viability, and how i will know it's time to make each move.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: fellow travelers...
It shocks and amazes me that you pinko scum can still be allowed to call yuorself Americans. You can bitch and moan all you want about how the evil corporations have doner this country wrong, but really...what have you done to build up this great nation and keep it safe. Hell...when you commie bastards arent going on strike, your trying to get gays on the television to pervert my kids...you and your hippie doctrines are all science crap with no basic foundation in the economic real world...I would say get a job, but the only type of occupations you people seem to be able to pull down is computer webpage designer (PCs are plastic, bitches) and granola taste-tester. If your little post-oil theories pan out, I hope you are the first that gets eaten for food.
It shocks and amazes me that you pinko scum can still be allowed to call yuorself Americans.
Let the feeding frenzy begin... _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
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