Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas

Eddy · Coal Joined: Oct 30, 2006 Posts: 1

As always the oil industries hold on the minds of it's users is strong, they don't want you to know that H2O or HHO is the most rapidly burning gas know to man, and that people all around the world have been using HHO as a fuel as far back as 1968 in the Phillippines. Now the US is falling behind and Masda is making it's HHO burning car, they have some of them running right now as i type. How can they work? It is easy everyone is fixsated on Hydrogen when it's the Oxygen that gives it it's power, that's how it works. For if you burn something in an Oxygen rich environment what will happen? I don't need to give you the answer to that or if I do you need to stop reading and get a clue. If you think you can get the same concentration of Oxygen in the air we breath than in these HHO genarators you way off base, and in that is there secret. They burn more efficently because there is more Oxygen present to burn the Hydrogen. Greed will be America's down fall as the rest of the world switches fuels we will still be in the dark ages. And too, let not what you have learn just go away in the dark parts of your mind and do something about it. Make or buy one of these things for yourself then and only then you will begin to see that you have been living in a dream world and the blanket will be lifted from your eyes.

KhanCEO · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: New Water Fuel

The New Fuel, Water

Enjoy!

{Threads merged by emersonbiggins}
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PolestaR · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2005 Posts: 1047

Whilst we still have electricity these ideas will come to fruition (electrolysis). It will probably provide only a small fraction of liquid energy, just like ethanol will too. Watch the news for all sorts of related stuff (just like ethanol) on the plateau/downside of the oil curve.

It's probably why car companies are going the H2 route.. they will be in demand by the richies not wanting to sit in line for their black gold.
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MD · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: Re: HHO - Water as a 'fuel'

Doly · Expert Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 4034

kokoda · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 422

It may be a useful method of storing hydrogen ... but I would need to see what the EROEI was before I start doing cartwheels.

Hydroman · Coal Joined: Dec 02, 2007 Posts: 2

HHO gas or Klein gas is a puzzel to most people who can't understand how it might help run an engine. Well, it is combustable and an engine has only so much internal volume to hold combustable or other gasses. If you lean back both the fuel and air your car will use less gas! The remaining volume can be filled up with HHO gas. It makes a 5 liter engine act like a smaller engine that is saving on gas. It has nothing to do with "water power", or energy from the void of the Universe. It is just like the lean control in a aircraft at 10,000 ft. You can lean the fuel back in thin air and use very little fuel. If you could get your car up to 10,000 ft, you could save gas just like in an airplane.

You can think of HHO just like ice in your glass of soft drink. You can fill up your glass with less soda pop if the glass if full of ice.

But in short, if you use less gas.... you will use less gas!
How simple is that?
To learn more, email me at byte312@aol.com

wtedb · Coal Joined: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 1

Question ...
If a person was to run an internal combustion engine on Hydrogen, would it not have to be a two stroke engine with the valve timing such that the hydrogen/oxygen would be pulled into the cylinder on the downward stroke, then the intake valve close at the bottom of the stroke and the ingition fire the mixture off when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder ??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dosn't the Hydrogen/Oxygen implode when it ignites and turn into a much smaller volume of water ..thus sucking the piston to the top of the cylinder ???

Basically a car running on hydrogen and oxygen (HHO) would have to be redesigned completely as far as valve and ignition timing are concerned as compared to the gas burning engines we know today ..now, this would be a totally different concept from using HHO as a suplement to a gas or Diesel engine ...

Your coments are welcome ....

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 394

Hydrogen is explosive, not implosive. I'm pretty sure standard ICE's have been run on hydrogen with little modification.
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efarmer · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 485

I received my Popular Science magazine recently and it featured a hydrogen powered aircraft on the cover. In the magazine was a full page ad for what to me is the unified field theory of mileage elixirs and whirligigs. If you carefully choose amongst the advertisers one can have their own Area 51 in a steel out building, wield a "willie" that is capable of splitting firewood, and get 100 MPG to boot.

http://www.preignitioncc.com/default/index.htm

HHO kits, chemical fuel additives, ECC add on module,
and fuel magnets with radiator heat input all in a medley
of mileage saving frenzy.

In the past, the story almost always included a bit about
how the government or Detroit, or the oil companies, tried
to get to the inventor and squash him.

What ever happened to common sense?

You are on the internet right now. You can find out how to make bombs and drugs and all sorts of things and it is damn near impossible for anyone to suppress the information. There are many independent and absolutely brilliant people on the planet, and they are linked by the internet and other communication methods. If this worked there would be millions of DIY people all over it and the OEM
automotive people would simply have to include it on each vehicle, even if the oil guys and the car guys were made sick by the thought.

I see myriad ads for revolutionary hair growth technology but yet many of the richest men and movie stars have obvious baldness or simply wear wigs. Why?

I see myriad ads for things to make the male unit larger, longer, more rigid, and able to snap to attention like a Marine recruit. Either this stuff ain't working or the customers are dying of happiness and taking the referral business to the grave.

I have seen the magnets and water powered car routine dozens of times now and have not ever seen any of the technology make it into a production car. The exception is ECC upgrades for performance or mileage tweaks to the normalized setpoints in the OEM software of the automobile.

The saddest thought for me, is that of one of these water powered car guys, standing in front of the urinal, and having to watch all of that raw horsepower go down the drain.

rogueit · Coal Joined: Mar 18, 2008 Posts: 1

I am reading a lot about Alt energy and fuels...the one thing that I
have gotten out of most of the negative stuff that I have read is that
you can't get free energy because the "cost" of making the energy
would be counter productive. I get that, I understand that you will
never (and I use that term loosely as not to offend, as I am, in the
great scope of things, relatively uninformed) be able to make more
energy that it takes to make it. However it seems to (uninformed) me,
that if you can increase your gas mileage by even 30% by a simple
mixture of water and baking soda, then why would you not do it? Not
forgetting that, the long term effects can't be noted, because no one
has ran one of these devices for a length of time that can be
considered "long term".

I have a friend who has hooked up one of these HHO on demand devices
onto his S10 pickup truck. It is a 95 model and he isn't going to have
to worry about the O2 sensors. His setup is as follows (and I am sure
you have read about this setup a few times at least).
He has a 2 glass jars secured under his hood attached via a hose to
equalize the pressure and get the gas created from both jars into the
breather of his truck.
The content of each jar is 3 pints of water and 2 tbls of baking
soda.
He has 2 wires that run in a coil down a core of Plexiglas and the
wires do not close the circuit (or I should say not intended to, I
watched him blow a fuse last night. But I will get back to that)
So through electrolysis he is creating HHO (if the process he is using
or the gas that is being created is incorrect please let me know). The
12V current is coming from his battery but he is running it from the
windshield washer fluid sprayer so it won't continue to run when the
car is turned off (and this is the fuse that he blew. He did however
have a couple spares, guess via trial and error he knew that he should
probably invest in some spares). He then has a hose that runs from the
two jars into the breather of his truck. When the valves open up to
let the air into the piston chamber for the gas, when ignited, to have
something to burn, instead of Oxygen you get Hydrogen and Oxygen.

He is saying that the S10 now gets 62 miles to the gallon, and he just
put it on a newer Yukon (I don't know what year but he bought it used
3 years ago for what ever that is worth.). He was getting 14 MPG and
now is getting 29 MPG. So if the battery is being charged by the
alternator, and the battery is creating the HHO gas and you can
increase your MPG by 30-50% isn't it worth it?

Of course there are obvious flaws in the thinking. Unknown long-term
effects, like having to buy a new engine and the trouble, timing, and
cost of hooking all the stuff up.

However even if you drain your battery, while creating the gas, in
half the time it is supposed to last, and end up having to buy a new
one, the money you save on gas would greatly cover the cost of a new
battery. For example, Lets say I pay 40 dollars per week to fill up my
car and I get 250 miles to a tank. If I get an increase of 40 %, then
I would have saved the money to buy a new battery.

So am I wrong in thinking that energy gained in form of HHO gas by 12V
Battery < energy used to create the gas + energy used to recharge the
battery from alternator + energy expelled burning the gas = 20-50%
increase in gas mileage is worth it?

thanks,
Rogue

gnm · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas

Rogue, in short each conversion of energy LOSES more energy. HHO is not magic pixie farts - just low density fuel. Your friend is not being accurate about his claimed increase in mileage or he is violating the laws of thermodynamics. As the battery is depleted producing the gas, the alternator kicks on thus putting more load on the engine. That primary load uses more fuel than is contained in the gas you generate.

I suggest a more concise examination will reveal that his gains... Aren't real...

-G
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kamnet · Coal Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Posts: 3

I've been reading up on all the arguments for and against these "HHO on-demand" systems for about six months now, and I'm not swayed either way. The majority of the "pro" individuals have little to no background in science, electronics or automobile mechanics and honestly most of their arguments come from "a friend of the friend". The majority of the "con" individuals gernally have a strong grasp on science and dismiss it outright based on theory, however, like the pros, have never even tinkered with it.

I'm willing to be a guinea pig for this. Two days ago I purchased a 1987 Mercury Cougar XR-7 that is in pretty decent condition, 146k miles. Sofar with three days and roughly 200 miles of travel (mostly highway) I'm getting an average of 17.9 MPG. This seems a suitable enough candidate car to use for this test.

I'm not willing to put insane amounts of money into this, but I have seen several of these kits for under $300, and that seems reasonable enough. Or if somebody has already bought one of these kits or downloaded instructions on building your own, but haven't had the guts/knowledge/energy to do so, I'll gladly take that too and repay you for your efforts if it works. If this happens to blow up my car, it won't be a loss for me (unless, of course, I'm killed in the process).

As I go along, I'll answer whatever questions I can and run whatever tests I'm capable of (or find a way to get some if I don't know myself). If anybody is interested in helping me with this, feel free to contact me or ask here on the message board.

Starvid · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas

Why are there 20 people with one (1) post commenting in this very thread? Rolling Eyes

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kamnet · Coal Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Posts: 3

Well, for me, it is because I just found this site yesterday. It's the only site which I've seen a decent amount of quality posting on regarding this subject (that is, it's been going on for quite awhile now, and it hasn't broken down into a flame war! Smile

). It inspired me to register an account and make a post, since I feel froggy enough to leap into this, and it seems like a decent enough community that will provide both some food for thought and quality feedback.