Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
I for one welcome our Polish overlords.
Seriously though, it is very interesting to see the effects it is having on society. It is bringing down wages in the construction industry which is no harm and it has eliminated alot of the complacency among Irish workers. On the downside, there are many Polish cars on the road with no tax and insurance and their driving habits have caused alot of accidents. It is fuelling the property boom because the Poles are all renting out houses. Overall, it has been positive because Irish and Poles are very similar (ie. religious and cultural background).
Down the road I do see it causing major problems when the economy starts to go into recession because our social services were built to cater for a population of 3.2 - 3.6 million and the wave of immigrants has pushed the population up to 4.2 million (about 20 years ahead of projections). _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
Code:
It is bringing down wages in the construction
On the surface sounds like a great deal, BUT ..... There is always a BUT. With the exodus of some many skilled workers from Poland IF you stumble on the wrong bunch still working here you will get results you will regret. Some of our family friends have had to deal with this lately. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 743 Location: The ever shrinking wilds of Norway
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
shakespear1 wrote:
Code:
Everyone in Poland has moved to Ireland and the UK.
Expect more as it seems UK climate is warming up
You certainly doesn't understand that what you have is the signs of an inland climate... That is what you are getting, hotter summers and possibly much colder winters. And that is what Poland already has.
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
After digging around a bit more, I'm not sure it matters a lot if we have 'contracts' or not. Sure, a contract is better than nothing, but apparently in today's world it means very little. At one point (2005) Poland had a contract with Gazprom thru 2022 (or something like that) - I guess it fell by the wayside.
Quote:
Poland imports 5.7 bn cm, or 61 % of its natural gas supplies from Gazprom, Russia's state-owned natural gas company.
Coal, which is produced domestically, is still the largest supplier of Poland's energy needs, accounting for around 60 %. Natural gas covers only 11.7 %. But because natural gas will rise to 20 % by 2025, according to estimates by the economy ministry, Poland is eager to seek new sources.
With prices for natural gas and oil at record highs, Russia said in October it would consider raising its natural gas prices to Poland, although Poland's Economy Ministry said it was unclear whether the prices could be renegotiated. In a long-term contract that Poland signed with Gazprom in 1996, the Russian company agreed to supply Poland with 167 bn cm until 2022.
The reason why Poland wants to diversify its gas imports is not just because of the rising prices. Polish officials said the country's newly elected conservative government believes that President Vladimir Putin of Russia is using his country's vast energy reserves to exert influence in the region
DOH!!!
At least some voices are protesting against the LNG facility since we have no contracts for LNG and it is entirely possible that the place will just end up as a giant scrapyard.
Poland will probably muddle through until someone else decides they could use the coal... _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
lateStarter wrote:
Poland will probably muddle through until someone else decides they could use the coal...
How long this coal will last anyway? Apparently Poland is one of last "mining" nations in EU.
How long it lasts, will depend on who is 'using' it. If it is just Poles, probably quite a long time (but at what environmental cost?). In the next few years, I imagine they will do a great deal of exporting to satisfy increasing demands. I found several interesting links just doing a google search on 'Coal Poland'. Still need to digest what I found.
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
Rather than creating a new thread, I thought this latest update would be appropiate here...
Germany seeks Polish cooperation for gas pipeline
Quote:
Today Jarosław Kaczyński will be paying visit to Berlin and meeting with chancellor Angela Merkel, who would like to establish whether Poland is ready to agree on the construction of an offshoot of the northern gas pipeline from Greisfald to Poland.
The pipeline terminal will be built in Greisfald, if Poland agrees, Germany will aid in its entry into the consortium that is building the pipeline. The question is, however, how this offer will be accepted by Poland. During Friday's press conference, the ministry of foreign affairs Anna Fortyga said that Poland still holds a negative attitude towards the pipeline's construction and has no intention to take part in this undertaking. According to Fortyga, the project is conflicts with one of the basic rules of the EU, that there is solidarity between its members. Germany is also awaiting Poland's cooperation to regulate arguments over historical records, particularly the project commemorating exile and compulsory relocation. Germany stressed that its high time to end this conflict. (Rzeczpospolita, October 28-29, p.A5) M.M.
How long do you think they will 'hold-out' on principle? _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
Latest update:
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has promised that Poland would receive gas from the West if it were to face the threat of being cut off from energy supplies.
Quote:
Energy issues topped the agenda on Monday, during Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski's trip in Germany. The PM explained that gas would be sourced from "countries located more to the West than Poland." This proposal might be the first step towards an EU-level agreement that would ensure Poland's energy safety. Details will be determined by a Polish-German committee that, according to Merkel, should conclude work by March 2007 - prior to a planned EU energy summit. Chancellor Merkel rejected the idea of signing an international treaty closing post-War claims. She believes the issue to be already closed, following a statement by the German government that it does not support any individual claims against the Polish government. Despite expectations, Merkel did not officially propose that Poland join the northern pipeline.
(Rzeczpospolita, pp. A1, A7) M.M _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
And yet another update:
Quote:
From Warsaw Business Journal
by Michał Pakulniewicz
PGNiG is in tough negotiations with its Russian gas suppliers.
Polish Oil and Gas (PGNiG) is holding talks in Moscow with Rosukrenergo on new conditions for sending gas to Poland. The current contract, which sends gas from Central Asia to Poland and provides the country with around a fifth of its annual gas demand, expires on December 31.
Right now the two parties are negotiating the price for 1,000 cubic meters of gas. Representatives of the Polish company claim that the proposed prices are unacceptable. Rumors have it that the Russians want Poland to pay over $300 (zł.899) per 1,000 cubic meters of gas, while the widely accepted price range in Europe varies between $280-310 (zł.839-929). According to unofficial information, until now PGNiG has paid Rosukrenergo about $240-250 per cubic meter (zł.719-749).
Last Tuesday Ukrainian gas transfer company Lvivtransgaz said it would halt gas transfers to Poland because Rosukrenergo hasn't resolved the issue of gas transport through the Polish-Ukrainian border. In the end the gas flow wasn't interrupted, but analysts see this situation as pressure to soften the Polish side before the next round of talks.
At the same time, PGNiG is looking for alternative gas sources. The company announced last week that it has submitted two offers for tenders to begin exploration works in Egypt. According to a company statement: "PGNiG is interested in two concession blocks located in the western part of the Egyptian desert." PGNiG has qualified for the second phase of a similar tender in Libya.
More to come, I'm sure... _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
From this point forward I just don't know how this will be patched up. For Russia to give would be just too much I think to expect. Putin just doesn't seem like the guy that will do it. Thus it could be a cold winter in the future here.
Electricity bills are already projected to start rising FAST. This was prior to this spat. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
The latest from Poland:
Quote:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Poland's oil and natural gas monopoly has signed a three-year gas deal with a Russian-Ukrainian gas supplier, even as Warsaw looks to diversify its energy supplies.
Polskie Gornictwo Naftowe i Gazownictwo SA, or PGNiG, agreed to buy 2.3 billion cubic meters of gas annually from RosUkrEnergo, PGNiG said in a statement late Saturday.
RosUkrEnergo is jointly owned by Russia's state-run gas monopoly OAO Gazprom and two Ukrainian businessmen. The new contract runs from Jan. 1, 2006 and replaces an expiring agreement.
PGNiG also said it has agreed to pay some 10 percent more for gas it receives from Gazprom under a long-term contract from 1996.
The Polish company imports almost 70 percent of its gas, mainly from Gazprom, and distributes it to Polish customers.
Polish leaders have warned that the former communist country is too dependent on oil and gas supplies from Russia. Poland was affected when Russia briefly cut gas deliveries to Ukraine in January.
Warsaw is exploring the possibility of importing Norwegian gas and building a liquid gas port on the Baltic coast. The Polish government has also floated the idea of pursuing nuclear energy.
On a side note: we haven't had to use much gas so far. The weather has been fairly mild. I am still killing mosquitos in my house. Even with the warm weather (10-12 degrees Celsius, low 50's F) my brother in-law has still been heating the house with wood and coal. He didn't seem to pick up on my subtle hints of opening the windows and walking around the house in my shorts! I guess the guy never heard about just putting on a sweater. To make matters worse, he only knows how to make one kind of fire - extremely hot. No such thing as a little fire just to take the dampness out of the air. _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
Latestarter, what is the Nat gas used for in Poland? I assume wood heating is common, at least in the country. Do lots of people use nat gas for cooking? People in cities or in country? Wood can be used for cooking, too, but I guess is old-fashioned. Do you use nat gas for making electricity? (as in the USA - although my understanding is that Poland uses the dirty kind of coal, brown coal?, for making electricity)
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
nocar wrote:
Latestarter, what is the Nat gas used for in Poland? I assume wood heating is common, at least in the country. Do lots of people use nat gas for cooking? People in cities or in country? Wood can be used for cooking, too, but I guess is old-fashioned. Do you use nat gas for making electricity? (as in the USA - although my understanding is that Poland uses the dirty kind of coal, brown coal?, for making electricity)
nocar
Fortunately for Poland, most of its electricity and heating needs are not currently being met by burning Natural Gas. The bad news: while only approximately 12% of its energy is generated from Natural Gas, by 2025, that percentage is expected to grow to 20%. Unfortunately for Poland, most of that need is being met by burning coal and lignite. Poland is currently, both the largest producer and consumer of coal in Europe. 91% of its electric power was generated from coal burning plants in 2002 (the EU average in 2004 was only 34%). Overall, at least 60% of its energy needs are met by coal burning plants
Fuel inputs for electrical generation are as follows:
Hard coal – 60%, Lignite – 34%, Natural Gas – 3%, Hydro and others – 3%
From my personal observations, a lot of the newer houses going up in Warsaw (at least in my neighborhood) are now using NG for heating and cooking. Let's be honest, it is much more convenient than crawling down in the basement to stoke the furnaces with whatever you are burning at the moment.
Even in the rural areas, a lot of the people building new houses have a tank for gas in the yard. I'm sure most of them (I hope) also have the capacity to heat their house with wood or coal. I know that is the route we are going... _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1021 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Poland - Not enough NG for 2006/2007 winter
Something kind off 'positive' for a change....
Quote:
Poland has teamed up with Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania to build a new nuclear power plant in the latter country. The plant will replace Chernobyl-type reactors in Ignalina, which are due to be closed in 2009.
Lithuania and Poland also signed a deal to build a power link between the countries by 2012. Latvia and Estonia could join this project, but they have not yet been invited.
In October, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia agreed to pool resources to build the new plant. According to a feasibility study, the new 800-1,600 megawatt plant with one or two reactors would be built by 2015 and cost R2.5-4 (zł.10-15) billion. Now that Poland has joined the project, two reactors could be built and Poland is pushing for a construction date before 2015.
Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczyński said Warsaw wants all four nations to share the costs and benefits of the project equally. "Four countries, four equal parts," he told a news conference.
Before the deal was struck, the Prime Ministers of the Baltic states said they would welcome Poland into the Ignalina project, but wanted to move fast and needed solid proposals from Warsaw. "It is not enough for Poland to say it wants to join, we want to hear names of concrete companies, we don't want to waste time," Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip insisted. Polish power-grid operator PSE could take part in the project, according to one Lithuanian government source.
On Thursday, Lithuanian Prime Minister Kirkilas hinted Sweden could also be a partner, given that both countries plan to link their grids with a cable under the Baltic sea. (Reuters)
2015 seems like a long ways off... _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
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