I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Sep 30, 2005 Posts: 451 Location: Baltimore County, Md
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
[quote="smallpoxgirl] It is much easier to remove a handgun from someone's hands than a longgun.
[/quote]
depends.
much easier to grab the muzzle on a long gun in CQB or ambush type situations.
clearly, a long gun, friends with long guns and body armor would be great to have if you knew a fight was in the offing.
my only point is that pistols have other utility and long guns have their downsides also. lots of times the first guy into the AQ hidey holes in afghanistan were going in with .45 meusoc pistols.
it's all about ranges of combat. rifle distance, cqb (pistol/knife) distance, kicking distance, punching distance, trapping distance and grappling. you need to be proficient all the way around.
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Heineken wrote:
Gego, I wonder if the corrosion problem you described might apply to any holster, not just leather? But: Leather is supposed to absorb moisture, right?
My Taurus manual says holsters should be leather and nothing but.
(But as I've noted, it's a lousy manual.)
I can't imagine keeping my gun unused in or out of a holster for years without at least periodically cleaning it and wiping it down with silicone, but obviously it happens, in which case the owner will have to reap the consequences.
I also associate leather holsters with rust. I think the leather absorbs moisture from the air and imparts it to the weapon. I only keep one of my handguns in a holster regularly, and it's kydex (and the gun is stainless steel). The other handguns I keep in a case.
I met an old guy out in the woods a couple years ago and struck up a conversation about guns. He pulled out a .22 pistol from under his truck seat to show me---it was in a leather holster and was rusty as hell. I doubt it was functional. He obviously hadn't looked at it in quite a while.
The Tennifer finish of Glocks is one of the reasons I like them so much. Very resistant to corrosion. Stainless is also good, as is parkerization. I've had problems with blued shotguns--had a couple of them rust up real easy.
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
ALBY wrote:
it's all about ranges of combat. rifle distance, cqb (pistol/knife) distance, kicking distance, punching distance, trapping distance and grappling. you need to be proficient all the way around.
Very True. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
davep wrote:
Status report on my apprenticeship...
I shot a .22 rifle at the weekend on the local 50m range. It was a bolt-action target rifle with iron sights.
I can't believe the accuracy of these things compared to handguns. Apart from the first two shots, I got every shot in a two inch group (and most were in a one inch group).
This kind of thing would be invaluable (and effective) for small game. Given I've got some experience with hunting rabbits with air rifles as a kid, I think one of these is indispensable in the armoury (the ammo is so much cheaper than anything else, and it's a lot quieter).
Would a semi-auto (with sights) be as accurate? Something with a 10-round mag (which are allowed in Italy) seems ideal. If bolt-actions are inherently more accurate, would this be a handicap in hunting? I guess accuracy is far more important for a .22 than speed of reloading (for hunting).
Semi autos have the potential to be as accurate as a bolt action. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 3034 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Hello,
I could use some advise on upgrading to a better handgun. Currently I own a SW9VE Sigma. This was my first handgun and for what I paid for it new 2 years ago this is a good gun. I have put about 1400 rounds through this little wondernine with no jams and love the 15rd clips. I do not like however the heavy trigger which seems to make me shoot low and groups poor at 10yrds compared to the Glock.
I am thinking about selling it for $200-$250 and adding $300 to buy a new Glock 17 in the 9mm or possibly .45acp. My logic is to upgrade to a more durable pistol I can shoot for a lifetime, a easier trigger, and teardown and cleaning is the same. Should I upgrade or stick with what I have? Sorry if this has been beaten to death in another thread. _________________ Hair in my eyes like a highland steer, spring in my step like a white tailed deer. Hitch in my hip like an old sheep dog, puff up my chest like a big bull frog.-Corb Lund
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1482 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
You might consider the G-19 if you think you are ever going to CCW. If you are thinking about numbers of rounds, you can always have spare mags, even high cap mags over 30 rounds if your state allows it.
I have a G-23, which is the .40 version of the G-19. There are precautions to take with the use of reloads with that handgun, though (i.e., "kaBoom").
I'd heard about the strong trigger on the SW sigma, which is one reason I went with a used police Glock.
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 3034 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Yeah it takes a little while to get use to the trigger. Last year I "Prayed and Sprayed" all 16 rounds on a 24 can case of Sam's choice cola. It was quite spectacular.
I'm leaning towards a new G19 and G21. The 33rd mag is tempting. _________________ Hair in my eyes like a highland steer, spring in my step like a white tailed deer. Hitch in my hip like an old sheep dog, puff up my chest like a big bull frog.-Corb Lund
Joined: Aug 07, 2005 Posts: 302 Location: Columbia, MO
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
I was at our local indoor range Friday and tried a Glock 17 and a Springfield XD-9. My groups were a lot better with the XD-9. I was pretty impressed - might have to shell out for the XD after the first of the year. It's easier to get mags for the Glock, however.
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
I'm not a gun nut, but some observations I've seen. One guy with his bullet proof vest demo holds a 45 right up to his torso and shoots... great vest it seems.
I saw demo on TV on shooting through bullet proof glass/plastic. Different pistols including a 45 were stopped cold. A long rifle 30-06 penetrated clear through both sides. I suspect rifle shots have a lot more penetrating power.
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
mikeh433 wrote:
I suspect rifle shots have a lot more penetrating power.
I suspect you are correct. _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6535 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
I once laid four or five 2 x 6 boards upright against a tree and shot into this structure point blank with my 30-30 Winchester rifle. The bullet penetrated the whole way through, to my amazement. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 3034 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Heineken wrote:
I once laid four or five 2 x 6 boards upright against a tree and shot into this structure point blank with my 30-30 Winchester rifle. The bullet penetrated the whole way through, to my amazement.
Hein-
I watched my dad take down a 300lb feral pig last month with his Marllin 336. Single shot knockdown in the gut at 90yards with a 10x scope. The 30-.30 a good bush gun. _________________ Hair in my eyes like a highland steer, spring in my step like a white tailed deer. Hitch in my hip like an old sheep dog, puff up my chest like a big bull frog.-Corb Lund
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
PrairieMule wrote:
Hello,
I could use some advise on upgrading to a better handgun. Currently I own a SW9VE Sigma. This was my first handgun and for what I paid for it new 2 years ago this is a good gun. I have put about 1400 rounds through this little wondernine with no jams and love the 15rd clips. I do not like however the heavy trigger which seems to make me shoot low and groups poor at 10yrds compared to the Glock.
I am thinking about selling it for $200-$250 and adding $300 to buy a new Glock 17 in the 9mm or possibly .45acp. My logic is to upgrade to a more durable pistol I can shoot for a lifetime, a easier trigger, and teardown and cleaning is the same. Should I upgrade or stick with what I have? Sorry if this has been beaten to death in another thread.
I'd say keep the Sigma and get a Glock anyway. For what you'll get for the Sigma it's barely even worth going through the bother of selling it. It's a known quantity and has proven itself reliable. Glocks are superb guns, but you may get a lemon or you may just hate it, in which case you'll still have the Sigma.
As for the question about rifle vs. handgun penetration, there's no contest. Rifle>handgun. I again refer to the Box O' Truth. To quote: "Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles."
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
PrairieMule wrote:
I am thinking about selling it for $200-$250 and adding $300 to buy a new Glock 17 in the 9mm or possibly .45acp.
First off, you can get a good used Glock for about $300. Check out CDNN. Download their catalog. You'll have to get it shipped to a local FFL, but you'll still save a bundle.
If you are planning on concealed carry, get a G19 instead. The site radius is shorter, and the mag holds two rounds less, but it's way better for daily carry. Voice of personal experience. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
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