Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
Chemo wrote:
Well thanks for the welcome Heineken. You are correct about laundry detergents not being necessary for farm work clothes, at least in the short to medium term. I go to work daily in an office and have found that detergent-less washing does not cut the mustard with some stains. Coconut oil stains from laksa for instance. However with a very soft water supply here, using the recommended full scoop of powder in the old front loader is not needed, for most loads a third or a quarter is all that is required.
Over years I have avoided using much in the way of detergents. Rarely wash the car, and then rarely use detergent. Have not bought shampoo for years - the operative syllable is "sham" IMHO. Some will go "Ewww" as they have been conditioned to do over the past fifty years or so. Yes I know that seems like a pun but it isn't.
Just on the subject of septic systems, I have not had to live with them for years but in Australia, shower, kitchen and laundry water are/were rarely connected to a tank. They used a separate disposal system. The kitchen sink had a grease trap and the water from it and the shower and laundry then went directly to a sump.
I use shampoo maybe once every 10 days. I wear my hair very short (and I cut it myself, using clippers with guards---those clippers have paid for themselves hundreds of times over), so more frequent shampooing is truly unnecessary for me. Sometimes instead of shampoo I just use a tiny bit of Ivory soap.
Wigmakers prefer human hair that has never been shampooed, I once read---it's stronger, apparently, and the colors are purer.
So many of the chemical products we have been socially conditioned to use are either unnecessary or not needed in the quantities prescribed by our corporate masters.
Septic systems and their maintenance are a fascinating subject, and a crucial one to country yokels like myself. I've learned quite a lot about them, and I intend to start a separate forum on them when I find the time. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
Laurasia wrote:
Well, I'm down to quarter-rations now on my weekly wash. I'm tired of always running out of laundry detergent so cutting its use by 75% has a certain charm.
Thank you Chemo for the info, particularly about boracic acid, and about boiling certain articles of laundry. Thanks Heineken for starting this thread about that most interesting of subjects, doing the laundry (and I'm not being sarcastic either - all the women of my family have enjoyed doing laundry) Of course the women at work all think I'm totally bonkers, but pretty harmless.
Well, time to put the second load onto the airers.
Regards,
L.
You're welcome, Laurasia. I'm also enjoying this forum, and it's having quite a bit more life than I thought it would.
Can't say I enjoy doing the laundry, but I respect those who do (and who do a good job at it!). _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
Chemo, interesting about the "sham" in shampoo. The other syllable being "poo":-) Why do you say that? For me conventional soap dries out my skin, and a mild shampoo works as a general-purpose liquid soap for washing my hands as well as general body washing in the shower, along with washing my hair. Simpler than having to buy an additional product (liquid soap).
Nwildmand: thanks; that's what I call the "eco-industrial design" approach to cleaning tasks. Here's a couple more examples:
Purge water (the cold before the hot comes up) in the shower gets saved in a 5-gallon bucket, which gets poured as needed into a smaller bucket and used to flush the toilet. This gets me four flushes per day without additional water use.
Laundry: I have a twin-tub washer (Danby DTT-420), which enables an interesting form of water recycling. The wash cycle uses the saved rinse water from the previous load's rinse (this water is clean plus a bit of dye from rinsing colored clothes and a bit of lint that didn't get caught in the lint filter). The rinse cycle uses clean tapwater, in overflow mode to float away residual suds and suchlike. The overflow from rinse goes into the dirty dish bin. The remaining rinse water (a full washtub minus whatever water is taken up by the fabrics) stays in the wash/rinse compartment for use in the wash cycle for the next load. (In Australia, the standard practice with twin tub washers is to do multiple loads on the same day and wash two or three loads in the same wash water, but my method works better for me since clothes line space is limited to one load at a time.)
Vacuuming: About 15 years ago I needed a vacuum and didn't think much of it when buying a second-hand 1960s Kenmore for cheep, which just happened to have a 2-speed motor switch on the back. The High setting is 800 watts, which is pretty standard for middle-of-the-road vacuums. But the Low setting is about 400 watts and provides more than sufficient suction for routine cleaning. It also turns out that 2-speed vacuums are fairly rare, so I got lucky: half the power consumption for almost all the cleaning. We're planning a design project on vacuums for later this year. The goal is 400 watts for most cleaning applications, with a reusable cloth bag and option for disposable bag liners. (Note, Miele vacuums presently have a variable power control that goes down to 400 watts, so there is a solution available right now; prices range about $300 - 600 which is about middle to upper middle price range for a good vacuum.)
Heating: 64 degrees in the room, plus knit cap and scarf on. But the eco-industrial design aspect was the discovery that a regular heating pad, at 40 - 50 watts, applied to the chest or legs, keeps me warmer than heating the room to 68 - 70 degrees (1500 watts or equivalent in natural gas).
Refrigeration: New design of fridge under development, total power consumption estimated at 200 KWH/year. We're going to sell these online once the R&D phase is complete this year.
Joined: Jan 19, 2007 Posts: 7 Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
I should have written thanks for the welcome to gg3 as well. As for the sham in shampoo, well I do recall that in the late 1950s/early 1960s here in Australia it was sold in little plastic tetra packs - tetrahedrons, apparently as single doses. It seemed to be intended for special purpose use, the night before the big date, the wedding day etc. During the 60s it was promoted more and more - by this time in bottles. Anyone recall "Richard Hudnut Egg Creme Shampoo" or was that just an Aussie brand?
Anyway, even then it seemed to be a "special job" product, for perhaps once a week use. Now if you hunt around the net on the subject a lot of people, even men seem to be convinced that it must be used every day. Nonsense I say. By and large the market and demand for it has been created by advertising from next to nothing. It is a product that nearly everyone can well do without. It is sham necessary.
It's no accident that it comes with a conditioner to be applied later. Why? To alleviate the damage the shampoo has done. Again, if you hunt around the net you will find postings saying "Don't use shampoo, but try the conditioner by itself". Me. I wash my thinning hair with plain water from the shower head every day. Once in a week I'll use a little soap.
Mother, now in her 80s has a full head of mostly black hair with frostings of white. She has never used more than a bottle or two of the stuff, preferring mild soap. Her mother never used it either. I suppose that my father knows what it's for, but has never used it and he has more hair than I do and it's still dark brown.
Now if you find it does less damage to your skin than soap, that's fine. I have found that shampoo dries my skin far more than soap. And I use very little of that.
Many things are capable of lowering water surface tension. Probably alcohol, for one. But such things don't necessarily have much effect on fats and oils. There are plant compounds, some called called saponins which have a soap - like action. Many of the saponins are very poisonous and have been used in cancer therapy, so I'd advise anyone not to use them.
However soaps and synthetic detergent/surfactants are designed to interact with fats and oils. Part of the molecule is fat-like, a long chain of carbon atoms which associate with fats and oils. At one or both ends is a charged region, positive, negative or opposite charges on each end. Some dispense with the charge and have water-like hydroxyl groups. These are the non-ionics. These charged areas or hydroxyl groups associate with water molecules. The effect is to form a suspension of oil or fats in water linked by the soap or synthetic molecules, an emulsion in fact.
One natural detergent or emulsifier is lecithin, obtained from eggs or soy beans but very common in most biological systems. It would be madly expensive to use it as a soap or detergent, but it is used as a food emulsifier. _________________ What? More expense?
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 769 Location: northern California
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
gg3 wrote:
Vacuuming: About 15 years ago I needed a vacuum and didn't think much of it when buying a second-hand 1960s Kenmore for cheep, which just happened to have a 2-speed motor switch on the back. The High setting is 800 watts, which is pretty standard for middle-of-the-road vacuums. But the Low setting is about 400 watts and provides more than sufficient suction for routine cleaning. It also turns out that 2-speed vacuums are fairly rare, so I got lucky: half the power consumption for almost all the cleaning. We're planning a design project on vacuums for later this year. The goal is 400 watts for most cleaning applications, with a reusable cloth bag and option for disposable bag liners. (Note, Miele vacuums presently have a variable power control that goes down to 400 watts, so there is a solution available right now; prices range about $300 - 600 which is about middle to upper middle price range for a good vacuum.
Since we live off-grid, power consumption is of even more concern. What we use for a vacuum is a $39.95 Shop-Vac from the local hardware store, that consumes somewhere around 400 watts. It has a cleanable filter. Over the past 10 years, this is the 2nd one, having broken the first about 5 years ago. It seems to have plenty of suction for all of our needs. _________________ "When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."
Thomas Paine
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary
Chemo: I grew up in England and I remember Richard Hudnut Shampoo with Egg - It was sold in those little plastic things we called sachets. I'm certain that shampoo was never intended for daily use - it's only in the last 15 or so years since it was accepted that some people shampooed daily, and in the beginning I think it was teenagers only. Now I work with a woman in her mid-forties who shampoos, conditions, blow-dries every morning. What a waste of shampoo, water, time & energy.
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