Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2580 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 mins
Full Flex International’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 minutes
Quote:
Anaheim (CA) - Anyone with a few hundred bucks and basic mechanic skills can convert their cars into flexible fuel vehicles in about 20 minutes. This is according to representatives of Full Flex International which sells drop-in conversion kits that let cars run on both ethanol and gasoline. The kits piggyback on top of the fuel injector computers.
The Full Flex tricks the car’s computer into holding the fuel injectors open for a little bit longer when using ethanol. The extra time is needed because ethanol has different burn characteristics than regular gasoline. After installation, users can run either ethanol E85, E100 or regular gasoline in the same tank. No switches need to be set and the computer recognizes both fuels on the fly.
The Full Flex kit is currently available for four, six and eight cylinder engines for around $300 to $510.
tgdaily _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Joined: Nov 07, 2005 Posts: 553 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
And another 20 people die of starvation as land used to grow crops now grows fuel, as another deluded sheeple is converted to ethanol because they think they are doing a good thing.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Gazzatrone wrote:
And another 20 people die of starvation as land used to grow crops now grows fuel, as another deluded sheeple is converted to ethanol because they think they are doing a good thing.
OK, where are these "20 people" who are dying because of ethanol? (And don't link to that stupid tortilla story.)
I'm no fan of ethanol, but the anti-biofuels rhetoric on this board can get downright ridiculous sometimes.
... prices of staple foods increased because of demand for biofuels, as the ifpri projections suggest they will, the number of food-insecure people in the world would rise by over 16 million for every percentage increase in the real prices of staple foods. That means that 1.2 billion people could be chronically hungry by 2025 -- 600 million more than previously predicted.
The world's poorest people already spend 50 to 80 percent of their total household income on food. For the many among them who are landless laborers or rural subsistence farmers, large increases in the prices of staple foods will mean malnutrition and hunger. Some of them will tumble over the edge of subsistence into outright starvation, and many more will die from a multitude of hunger-related diseases.
Joined: Jun 08, 2005 Posts: 323 Location: Cascadia
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Fuel lines and other plastic/rubber bits in a Gas only set up are then subjected to the effects of Ethanol. When a manufacturer makes a Flex vehicle, it's not just the ECU that is different. There are many differences from the fuel tank up to (and including) the injector.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Pablo2079 wrote:
Fuel lines and other plastic/rubber bits in a Gas only set up are then subjected to the effects of Ethanol. When a manufacturer makes a Flex vehicle, it's not just the ECU that is different. There are many differences from the fuel tank up to (and including) the injector.
I wouldn't recommend this.
This company will be long out of business when those class-action lawsuits start rolling in.
Pump, dump, chapter 7. It's all part of the plan. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Nov 07, 2005 Posts: 553 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Loki wrote:
Gazzatrone wrote:
And another 20 people die of starvation as land used to grow crops now grows fuel, as another deluded sheeple is converted to ethanol because they think they are doing a good thing.
OK, where are these "20 people" who are dying because of ethanol? (And don't link to that stupid tortilla story.)
I'm no fan of ethanol, but the anti-biofuels rhetoric on this board can get downright ridiculous sometimes.
So that's Peak Oil, Peak Coal, Peak Natural Gas, Peak Uranium. Oh and Peak Sense of Humour.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Gazzatrone wrote:
Loki wrote:
Gazzatrone wrote:
And another 20 people die of starvation as land used to grow crops now grows fuel, as another deluded sheeple is converted to ethanol because they think they are doing a good thing.
OK, where are these "20 people" who are dying because of ethanol? (And don't link to that stupid tortilla story.)
I'm no fan of ethanol, but the anti-biofuels rhetoric on this board can get downright ridiculous sometimes.
So that's Peak Oil, Peak Coal, Peak Natural Gas, Peak Uranium. Oh and Peak Sense of Humour.
FFS.
All righty. Maybe you were making fun of the standard line on ethanol on this board? If so, it actually is kind of humorous, as the maudlin white-guilt nonsense people spout here about ethanol is just plain silly. But I don't think quizz got your joke, either. On the contrary, he supplied "evidence" (i.e., an opinion piece with little to no empirical data) to "prove" your statement.
Quizz, if you're really concerned about people starving in the Third World, I strongly suggest you look at the impact of Europe's meat consumption. Start with the relationship between Argentine soy production and the spatial distribution of severe malnutrition. And where does that soy go? To feed livestock, much of it destined for European plates. There are real people right now who are currently going hungry so Euros can stuff their faces with luxury foods. This is not a prediction (unlike your link), this has been going on for years. Yet nary a word about it on this board. Makes me seriously question if people who bitch about ethanol actually give a rat's ass about starving people, or if they just use the alleged threat of starvation to feel personally vindicated in their distaste for biofuels.
As for your link, I can't say as I have a very high opinion of it. The economists who wrote it are clearly corporate-trade globalists. As such, they conveniently ignore the fact that NAFTA and other corporate trade agreements are at the root of the Mexican tortilla crisis and similar problems. They don't even bother to mention NAFTA, but they do decry "protectionism." Mexico and other poorer countries wouldn't care one whit what we did with our corn if they were still agriculturally self-sufficient (as they were when they used "protectionist" measures to ensure small growers could still make a living). But they're not, due first and foremost to NAFTA. Ethanol is near the bottom of the list of reasons why poor Mexicans can't afford quality food anymore.
I agree that corn-based ethanol is idiocy (little more than welfare for corporate agribusiness that will do NOTHING to wean us off oil), but white-guilt silliness that borders on hysteria does nothing to make our case for Peak Oil any stronger, nor does it effectively counter the case for ethanol. On the contrary.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Quote:
All righty. Maybe you were making fun of the standard line on ethanol on this board? If so, it actually is kind of humorous, as the maudlin white-guilt nonsense people spout here about ethanol is just plain silly. But I don't think quizz got your joke, either. On the contrary, he supplied "evidence" (i.e., an opinion piece with little to no empirical data) to "prove" your statement.
Quizz, if you're really concerned about people starving in the Third World, I strongly suggest you look at the impact of Europe's meat consumption. Start with the relationship between Argentine soy production and the spatial distribution of severe malnutrition. And where does that soy go? To feed livestock, much of it destined for European plates. There are real people right now who are currently going hungry so Euros can stuff their faces with luxury foods. This is not a prediction (unlike your link), this has been going on for years. Yet nary a word about it on this board. Makes me seriously question if people who bitch about ethanol actually give a rat's ass about starving people, or if they just use the alleged threat of starvation to feel personally vindicated in their distaste for biofuels.
As for your link, I can't say as I have a very high opinion of it. The economists who wrote it are clearly corporate-trade globalists. As such, they conveniently ignore the fact that NAFTA and other corporate trade agreements are at the root of the Mexican tortilla crisis and similar problems. They don't even bother to mention NAFTA, but they do decry "protectionism." Mexico and other poorer countries wouldn't care one whit what we did with our corn if they were still agriculturally self-sufficient (as they were when they used "protectionist" measures to ensure small growers could still make a living). But they're not, due first and foremost to NAFTA. Ethanol is near the bottom of the list of reasons why poor Mexicans can't afford quality food anymore.
I agree that corn-based ethanol is idiocy (little more than welfare for corporate agribusiness that will do NOTHING to wean us off oil), but white-guilt silliness that borders on hysteria does nothing to make our case for Peak Oil any stronger, nor does it effectively counter the case for ethanol. On the contrary.
Finally, some rational discussion added to the debate.
There are sources of ethanol that actually can work, like sugarcane. EROEI is 4-6, its depletion of the soil is relatively mild, and without subsidy, it is competitive with America's fuel prices. However, it doesn't have a bunch of lobbyists backing it, is limited in areas where it can be grown, and realistically, most 1st world countries will never be able to replace more than 3% of their oil consumption with it before they start to encroach on environmentally protected lands. No surprise then that the U.S. tariffs sugarcane and derivative products from Brazil to prevent it from cutting into oil industry profits, and no surprise that corn, with its EROEI < 1 and rapid soil depeletion, gets a huge ass amount of tax subsidies from our government. If Monsanto, BP, ADM, and other multinationals tell our government to do something, our government does exactly as they say.
From the right sources and if done in small amounts, ethanol is part of the solution, as are other biofuels. Many on this forum fail to understand this, not looking at the system as a whole and all of the causes of the problems are society faces. When abused, ethanol could also be a huge source of problems.
Most of the food shortages we have today have been caused by market manipulation and politics. The world produces enough food for perhaps 12 billion people; the problem is that most of them can't afford it. They literally aren't paid enough to live on for the hard labor they perform. That food goes to waste and is also used to feed livestock purchased by wealthy nations, even though many poor nations are cutting into the stockpiles they currently have.
Using biofuels to run cars is perhaps an expansion of the hunger problem by a small degree, not the root cause. Its impact is small, and there's much larger sources of this problem to be addressed, where if they were addressed, would allow people to eat AND allow some of us to run our cars. But big business just won't have it. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
Loki wrote:
Gazzatrone wrote:
And another 20 people die of starvation as land used to grow crops now grows fuel, as another deluded sheeple is converted to ethanol because they think they are doing a good thing.
OK, where are these "20 people" who are dying because of ethanol? (And don't link to that stupid tortilla story.)
I'm no fan of ethanol, but the anti-biofuels rhetoric on this board can get downright ridiculous sometimes.
We ran ethanol in our race vehicles for years, it costs about 3 dollars to convert a carburetor vehicle to ethanol. Now since you are digital it takes a bit more to change the chip (though you can just increase the injectors so the engine dont know it) THERE IS NO REASON TO RUN ETHANOL but its only advantage is it has an octane rating of about 130 and you can turbocharge it cheaply and run nitrous for more power without blowing the engine, both of which are not good for making fuel economy cars.
ethanol is a full race fuel with many many bad properties that makes driving and replacing parts more expensive but we put up with it.
easy as pie to convert their just making a killing on another opportunity. No reason to ever ever ever run ethanol.
and the scary part is they do it in the name of conservation, That is like burning your newspapers to save on landfill wasting, its stupid.
Ethanol sucks water out of air by just sitting there, rusts engine components, corrodes dissilimlar metals in your motor and causes acid leaching on the crank, WE KNOW, that is why they are all for it. It is a negative-nice fuel.
The auto industry would be ALL FOR IT! yeah baby! buy more parts and hoses! keep the warranty at 40 thou miles and theyll get a new one at 50! We had to replace more parts more often for peak performance, but when racing it isnt too obvious since you blow engines a lot anyway.
Ethanol costs more and has 2/3 the energy and it takes more energy to make it than it burns.
You just don't know anything about ethanol if you think the ethanol venemosity on this board is too high, it cant be too high
Ethanol is a total gimmick and a waste of all energy and resources.
now an honest question for you.
I'll bet you are a farmer or an agriculture professional, aren't you?
Or you read those magazines that have flying cars for the average household on the cover, right?
If so I understand your outrage. Because there are only two reasons for your lack of understanding. You make money off ethanol, or your ignorant of the facts, but that doesn't mean you can't learn, its not your fault, the whole industry is trying to get your wallet. Thats what they are here for!
Ethanol is more expensive for the same volume.
It has 2/3 the energy for the same volume.
This is the only board that tells the truth on ethanol
Because we don't believe pop sci "money comes first solutions" for oil wasting!
If you are a farmer or make profit off of it, and you understand peak oil, then I wonder how you can sleep at night knowing what you are doing.
Ethanol CANNOT be manufactured for the same amount of energy it puts out.
You cannot make and ethanol crop, grind it up, make mash out of it using PURE WATER OUR MOST PRECIOUS RESOURCE and letting it ferment in HEAT CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT (All electric that isnt added to the cost) and then TRIPLE DISTILLED using electricity (ALL CONVENIENTLY ELIMINATED FROM THE EQUATION) in terms of BTU energy (Since electricty BTU is cheaper than oil or ethanol BTU
and thenpumped and shipped and stored in anhydrous environment.
BTU cost for electricity is less than BTU cost for gasoline that is why ethanol can come close.
BUT IT IS STILL OVERALL NEGATIVE
and the electricity you used to make it was COAL ENERGY!
thats right. You are buring half the BTU as COAL that was burned at some electric power plant!
So of course the electric companies like ethanol!
a barrel of ethanol mash cannot be distilled off triple with the energy or ethanol coming from that barrel
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
those costs are never put into the equation cause they know better.
Ethanol is an extreme total JOKE and a ripoff.
Thats putting it totally mildly
to supply americas oil use with ethanol you have to make enough ethanol MASH to keep niagara falls flowing continuously, it is not possibl, and all that water has to be raised to boiling three times in distillation.
Now, I know we are a little against it, but this is all well deserved rebuttal for ethanol
it stinks.
You can't attribute directly anyone dying from making ethanol. They die in the shadows, from the result of corrupt government funding ethanol projects and not giveing their people the necessities, and taking crop lands.
Can't see them
But the point is, we are burning FOOD for vehicles, using water to grow it, and pesticides to abundatly produce.
There is something very really wrong with that.
I know, you think I'm just wrong.
I know. That is why Ethanol is being produced now. They think they are right. Let's take the government subsidies away from ethanol and see who stays in business.
In other words, they are BURNING YOUR MONEY in the next guys gas tank! Think about it.
Burning your food.
Burning your money.
this is conservation? _________________ ___________________________
WHEN THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND...GET OUT OF THE WAY!
Using evil to further good makes one evil
Doubt everything but the TRUTH
This posted information is not permissible to be used
by anyone who has ever met a lawyer
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flex Internl’s kit converts cars to ethanol in 20 m
grabby wrote:
I'll bet you are a farmer or an agriculture professional, aren't you?
Or you read those magazines that have flying cars for the average household on the cover, right?
Yep, that's me, Mr. High Powered Agribusiness Executive. I'm raking in the millions on ethanol as I write. How'd you guess?
Quote:
If so I understand your outrage. Because there are only two reasons for your lack of understanding. You make money off ethanol, or your ignorant of the facts, but that doesn't mean you can't learn, its not your fault, the whole industry is trying to get your wallet. Thats what they are here for!
No, there's a third reason, a low tolerance for maudlin hysterics. If you genuinely believe mass starvation is going to follow on the heels of ramped up ethanol production, fine, but don't get all pissy when someone disagrees and comments on your hysterical rhetoric (not to mention your shameless hypocrisy).
And, as I said in another thread, endlessly chanting "ethanol is food" while you hold your fingers in your ears doesn't make your point any more valid. On the contrary, it suggests you are incapable of making a valid argument.
One interesting thing about your semi-coherent rant grabby, is that you didn't address ANY of my points. Instead you went off about a conspiracy by rubber tube manufacturers or some such thing (a new bit of silliness to add to my list of anti-ethanol hysterics). If you actually want to have a conversation instead of just ranting at me and making false accusations while ignoring everything I say, you can begin by addressing my point about globalized ag. Start with NAFTA.
As for my personal opinion on ethanol, I'm against it, at least the way it's currently being produced. As I've clearly stated on this thread already (ever considered a remedial course in reading comprehension, grabby?), I consider corn-based ethanol to be nothing more than welfare for corporate agribusiness, not to mention a good way to avoid have to, gasp, cut back our energy use. But considering the trillions of dollars I make everyday on ethanol (as the high-powered agribusiness excecutive I am), I don't mind if Uncle Sucker wants to give his rich friends (like me) a reach around.
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