Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: THE MATRIX
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
MD - A timeless composition.
9.11 + Afghanistan + Iraq + Iran = my government is doing something and alot of it! I dont think the majority of the greedy sheeple would disagree if they were aware of the levity of the situation and what the alternatives would mean to their lifestyle.
At this point they can remain relatively undisturbed while silently condoning their governments actions.
Things havent really gotten interesting yet.
No gas lines, no food chain interuptus of any great significance etc etc and what we did experience was a dress rehearsal provided by the weather so the sheeple easily dismiss it.
I expect to see both the sheeple and their government getting involved very shortly albeit reluctantly.
So much depends on the weather and war.
Ju Ju Be?
I am gonna go find a back row seat just in case someone yells "fire!".
Peakers never sleep - they wait! _________________ It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
Thus, the real dilemma of coping peak oil, for a while at least, is really quite simple. If the government should lay out the full ramifications of peaking in hopes of rallying the people to make preparations, the most immediate consequence is likely to be serious economic setback triggered by an unambiguous announcement itself.
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So there you have it. The GAO did their job by warning the Congress that peak oil might just be a very serious problem very soon, and the DOW is still going up. Sometimes government agencies are not that dumb after all!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
Twilight wrote:
If people are not aware, it matters little whether the government is aware. There really is very little any government can do about a structural problem on this scale without public participation. Maybe the only intelligent thing they're doing is prolonging the party if they know it is too late to act in any manner at all.
Or maybe they plan to smother peak oil under a shroud of war.
Or shift the blame and cause to terrorism. More war.
Bottom line.
More war. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
Jack wrote:
Now, KillJOY - you know we can't upset the proles or outer party members. That would be double-plus ungood.
Once again, Jack, respect for your posts! Precise, up to the point, and just enough humour not to let it go offtopic. Thumbs up:) _________________ There is no knowledge that is not power.
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
JPL wrote:
MonteQuest wrote:
Or maybe they plan to smother peak oil under a shroud of war.
Or shift the blame and cause to terrorism. More war.
Bottom line.
More war.
Without fossil fuels, that's not possible -
Who says we won't have fossil fuels to fight war?
700 million barrels of SPR will fuel a lot of war.
We produce 5 mbpd in the US.
Quote:
Anyhow, what would be the point?
War has never needed a point before, why start now? _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
Anyhow, what would be the point?
The point would be to kill another group to take their resources, the way the world has always worked.
Along the same lines the US also has the added problem of stopping another power rising up with the remaining oil. _________________ "One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand."
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1084 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
Battle_Scarred_Galactico wrote:
Anyhow, what would be the point?
The point would be to kill another group to take their resources, the way the world has always worked.
No, there are other paradimes. Post-medieval Europe after the first Black Death, for example. When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.
It was 100+ years before the European economy recovered to the point where people 'needed' resources. Wars weren't possible, during the post-medieval 'transition stage', there just wasn't the manpower to do it...
JPL _________________ The three most beautiful things in the world -
a full-rigged ship, a woman with child and a full moon.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1084 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
MonteQuest wrote:
700 million barrels of SPR will fuel a lot of war.
We produce 5 mbpd in the US.
Yes, & I'm very pleased for you. If it's any consolation, we have about the same amount of production-level in Europe. So I guess we can (also!) fight lots of wars too.
But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?
Good luck...
JPL _________________ The three most beautiful things in the world -
a full-rigged ship, a woman with child and a full moon.
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
JPL wrote:
But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?
Fight until it is all gone.
This is not my plan or my notion.
This is how it has always been. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
MonteQuest wrote:
JPL wrote:
But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?
Fight until it is all gone.
This is not my plan or my notion.
This is how it has always been.
Conflict will probably cause the overall world decline to be far steeper than is commonly presumed by destroying access to the very sources of oil and dependent infrastructure that is being fought for. We have seen this already with Iraq.
T.S. Eliot was wrong when he speculated that life might not be destroyed in some cataclysm, but instead fade to grey - fitfully, mournfully. Life (or at the very least civilised life) it seems is on a collision course to end with a Bang and not a whimper given the state of absolute inertia and denial by TPTB about the predicaments that are converging upon us.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.
Yes well, clearly when there are less people there is less war. _________________ "One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand."
Joined: Aug 13, 2005 Posts: 603 Location: BlueRidgeVA
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: GAO Report on the Peak and Decline of Oil Production
JPL wrote:
Post-medieval Europe after the first Black Death, for example. When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.
It was 100+ years before the European economy recovered to the point where people 'needed' resources. Wars weren't possible, during the post-medieval 'transition stage', there just wasn't the manpower to do it...JPL
My knowledge of 14th Century is not the best but it seems that there was quite a bit of warfare after the black plague events.
Black Plague 1348-50
Hundred Years War 1337-1453
"The 14th century gives us back two contradictory images: on the one hand a glittering time of crusades and chivalry and exquisitely illuminated Books of Hours; on the other, a time of ferocity and and spiritual agony- a world plunged into chaos. These are the years when the black death struck in the great plague of 1348 -50, killing more than a third of the entire population between India and Iceland, and returned four times during the rest of the century...when freebooting companies of brigands terorized Europe with impunity ...when a "hundred years' war" seemed to have no beginning and no end, and defying the belligerents own efforts to end it, acquired a life of it's own, "an epic of brutality and bravery checered by disgrace". -- Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
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