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LaLaLand Tar Sands


Joined: Dec 16, 2004 Posts: 84
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysis |
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The Cato Institute, a Libertarian think tank, takes on peak oil and government regulations involved in the petroleum extraction, refining, and distribution industries.
Energy Alarmism: The Myths That Make Americans Worry about Oil
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auscanman Heavy Crude


Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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Thats one of the most delusional analyses I've read for a while. No need to have troops in the Middle East to keep the oil flowing, or threaten anyone who dares to challenge the petrodollar.... The comment that really caught my attention is that peak oil is definitely not here, as past experience apparently shows that market forces have always ensured adequate supply. Unfortunately for them peak means a whole change to that state of affairs. Even though I was fervently against the war in Iraq, these misguided antiwar groups who think oil demand will just magically be met and that our way of life is non-negotiable almost piss me off more than honest pro-war crowd.
Another great example of how extrapolating from historical experience combined with blind faith in infinite growth economics leads to flawed conclusions. |
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pea-jay Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 1600 Location: NorCal
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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They're idiots, but unfortunately some rightwingers spout their thinking from time to time, reinforcing their idiocy.
I'll read the main document a little later, but given their track record, Im not holding out much hope for them. _________________ UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com |
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ALBY Heavy Crude


Joined: Sep 30, 2005 Posts: 439 Location: Baltimore County, Md
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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idiots ? delusional ?
that is probably the most compelling (albeit left handed) indictment of us foreign policy of the last 50 years that i have ever read.
cato rarely produces crap. if you are looking for self reinforcing feedback for your pre-conceived ideological or geological notions, then im sure you were disappointed.
where i think cato has underestimated 'peak oil' is in the assumptions of world economic growth and the 'new' production needed to satisfy this demand. this is a non linear problem in that not meeting these economic goals by even a little bit will have a huge, asymetric impact on the world economy.
but, the main point of the piece is that US foreign policy is a Fark and counterproductive to the energy security it claims as it's central premis. pretty much undeniable, doncha think ? |
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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I haven't read their argument yet, and I doubt the first two posters did either. I'm going to read it this weekend. I can say this, Cato will always approach any issue from the small government "keep your hands off my property" stand point. They will call out any type of central planning entity every time and blame its interference on whatever problems might arise. Most of the scholars/policy wonks/media personalities at Cato aren't "anti-war" per say, they simply see war as a means to an end in regards to state power, as well as an interference on people's personal lives. Natural law is what it is, 0 interference.
I would agree a lot of what they say, albeit sensible, is not very realistic when you look at how the modern capitalist state really works. As any Marxist would argue; Capitalism will consume until there is nothing left to consume. That's how Capitalism works. Combine that with a socially conservative culture that doesn't change very much and bam. I can see why some people are freaked out by oil depletion due to a unsustainable lifestyles that everyone and the mother wants. Now the Chinese and Indians want it too...
I guess it's time to go nuk-lear as G. Bush would say... |
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NWMossBack Heavy Crude


Joined: Jan 24, 2007 Posts: 189 Location: Pacific NW USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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Here's my favorite quote:
| Cato Wingnuts wrote: | | Geologic features determine the location and quantity of oil deposits, but they do not determine "oil supply" in any meaningful sense. |
It's all so simple: we don't need middle eastern oil with all the nasty geopolitical ramifications. Market forces will trump geology and allow profitable oil production in friendlier places!  |
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Concerned Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Sep 23, 2004 Posts: 1499
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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| NWMossBack wrote: | Here's my favorite quote:
| Cato Wingnuts wrote: | | Geologic features determine the location and quantity of oil deposits, but they do not determine "oil supply" in any meaningful sense. |
It's all so simple: we don't need middle eastern oil with all the nasty geopolitical ramifications. Market forces will trump geology and allow profitable oil production in friendlier places!  |
Of course not everyone knows that. Why? Because of the magical self regulating nature of market forces. The mystical invisible hand.
When xyz commodity became to expensive companies adapt and find ways of using less, something else or going without.
The going without part (demand destruction due to skyrocketing prices) is reserved for the poor masses. So if there is a food or fuel shortage the people with money say you and me get to eat and drive the people with less money say some farmer in Bangladesh, India or some other 3rd world hell hole gets to tie a rope around their neck and swing from a tree.
It's all very magical and self regulating and based on the "marginal added value" an individual can add to production. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb |
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Vogelzang Heavy Crude


Joined: Jul 03, 2008 Posts: 110
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cube Fusion

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Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 3353
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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| pea-jay wrote: | | They're idiots, but unfortunately some rightwingers spout their thinking from time to time, reinforcing their idiocy. |
Libertarians are NOT right-wingers
Libertarians believe in BOTH personal freedom and economic freedom.
So basically you get to have (gay marriages + abortions) and (low taxes + small government)!  |
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dohboi Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1149
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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That chart makes libertarianism look like it's the opposite of popular!
I know, I know, it's populist, not popular, but it does make libertarians look like some kind of elitists.
Libertarians mistrust government power, but they seem to have no problem with enormous concentrations of power in the hands of mega-corporations or enormously wealthy individuals. Why is the one kind of power so frightening while the other is seen as totally benign?
Cato is always blinkered by their narrow ideology, but they have sometimes come up with a clever analysis. This does not look like one of them. |
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Ibon Moderator


Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1132 Location: Seattle, Wa.
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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| ALBY wrote: | | but, the main point of the piece is that US foreign policy is a Fark and counterproductive to the energy security it claims as it's central premis. pretty much undeniable, doncha think ? |
That is the main point of the study and for this it has merit as it is an indictment of the failed neo conservative agenda. The faithfulness of market forces solving the problem together with technology is the part of the study that is almost frivolous. It lacks real integrity in that it doesn't even closely look at the geology of oil supplies seriously or at issues like EOREI but rather blames peak oil as a negative belief and one of fear mongering.
The part that addresses the complexity of supply and demand and how that relates to OPEC was good. It is interesting to question how long this alliance of oil producers will be necessary once supply constraints become more permanent.
The report is not loyal to the facts that are unfolding in the real world but rather faithful to a market philosophy of infinite growth based only on the dynamics of supply and demand.
I don't worry about that because as the saying goes......The truth will set you free.
It won't be long for the Cato Institute to have to question some of the pillars of their dogma. The geological reality of peak oil is currently seriously undermining this foundation.
I have recently stopped even getting angry or incredulous over these types of reports. It is no longer a debate over two conflicting philosophies as it perhaps once was a few decades ago.
It is now all about reality threatening long held belief systems. Why get angry anymore when we all know that even the Cato Institute will soon have to yield to realities. They may succeed in putting the breaks on faster mitigation and acceptance by the status quo but this is the very part of the process of transition. Institutes defending the status quo until reality imposes new truths. The more dogmatic your belief system the more unlikely you are to recognize and identify the early stages of a major threat such as peak oil and simply dismiss it. That is why an institute as prestigious as the Cato Institute can actually be so obtuse and blind to the reality of Peak Oil which really staring them in the face.
We are simply witnessing the unwinding of a dying paradigm. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Last edited by Ibon on Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wxman Heavy Crude


Joined: Aug 23, 2005 Posts: 175
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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| LaLaLand wrote: | The Cato Institute, a Libertarian think tank, takes on peak oil and government regulations involved in the petroleum extraction, refining, and distribution industries.
Energy Alarmism: The Myths That Make Americans Worry about Oil
LINK |
Anyone notice that the date on that analysis is April, 2007, when oil was hovering between $60 and $70.
edit - NYMEX price on April 9th: $61.51 |
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Ibon Moderator


Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1132 Location: Seattle, Wa.
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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I actually thought it was April 2008. It would be interesting to follow up with the authors if they remain faithful to the main points of their study. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape |
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ROCKMAN Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 658 Location: TEXAS
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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Ibon,
It seems like we're back to the same repeated problem with the PO message: different parties trying to use PO to forward a seperate agenda. Like you, I don't brag on the results of US policies overseas. But you can bet, regardless of the date or subcontext, of reports like this one from the CI that it will be worked into the media circus and just confuse the angry viilagers all the more. |
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TommyJefferson Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1677 Location: Republic of Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi |
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| dohboi wrote: | | Libertarians mistrust government power, but they seem to have no problem with enormous concentrations of power in the hands of mega-corporations or enormously wealthy individuals. Why is the one kind of power so frightening while the other is seen as totally benign? |
Because government power is based upon violence and private power is based upon voluntary agreements.
Bill Gates can't legally pull my car over and take my cash just because I can't prove where I got it. Exxon Mobil can't legally bust into my house and shoot me because a confidential informant said I had some weed. _________________ Conform . Consume . Obey . |
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