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benzoil
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Joined: Aug 26, 2005
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Location: Windy City No Longer
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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| Gideon wrote: |
What is the size of the area? How well unsulated?
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About a 130 sq. feet with a high (12' - 14') ceiling. R-30 or higher in the floor and ceiling. Walls won't be quite as insulated, but will be lined with books. The whole first floor is probably about 1000-1100 sq ft. (8' ceilings) with R-values all over the map currently.
BTW, those Jotuls look nice.
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Gideon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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Last edited by Gideon on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kaktus
Tar Sands
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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My (limited) experience is that its important not to choose a to big/powerful stove, because then you cant burn on full and when you try to keep the fire slow (I dont know the word in English) you get a lot of tar and smoke.
Also I'm very fond of the ones made in soapstone(?), perhaps that is mainly popular in Scandinavia? and if not used most of the year I suppose they're a waist of money. They give a very nice warmth though and store a lot of heat, simply by mass but nowadays some have a fan. They need a strong floor.
Example : http://www.jotul.se/content/products/ProductArticle____439.aspx |
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benzoil
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Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 428
Location: Windy City No Longer
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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| kaktus wrote: | My (limited) experience is that its important not to choose a to big/powerful stove, because then you cant burn on full and when you try to keep the fire slow (I dont know the word in English) you get a lot of tar and smoke.
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I wondered about that. My original plan was to heat the one room with the stove for now, but move it into the main living area (2nd chimney) if electricity for the outdoor wood furnace ever got to be a problem. Sounds like I don't want to buy too much bigger than my current needs though...
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Heineken
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Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 6480
Location: Rural Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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I agree with katkus. Too much heat is probably worse than not enough heat.
I live in a 700-square-foot apartment over a barnlike garage. My only heat source is a beefy 1980s-era Englander woodstove with one of those stupid catalytic combusters. It throws far too much heat for this space, except on the coldest nights (down around 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit). Most of the winter I keep my windows partly open---which is a good thing in some ways; the air is fresher, and the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning is eliminated.
I constructed a sliding "hatch" in the ceiling with a dangling cord that I can use to open and close it; excess heat is thus vented up into the attic. This little invention, along with the windows, gives me very fine control of the temperature in the apartment, although I have to make lots of adjustments during the day.
Even with all that, I still tend to run the stove too low.
One of these days I'll replace the stove with a smaller one, but for now I'm feeling too cheap. Even those cute little Jotuls cost plenty! |
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Pops
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 6555
Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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| kaktus wrote: | | They give a very nice warmth though and store a lot of heat, simply by mass but nowadays some have a fan. |
It all comes down to insulation and mass.
A person can gain a surprising amount of mass simply by adding a layer of drywall, a tile or stone floor covering or even decorative items filled with chlorine treated water - doubling as water storage. By the stove we have a big covered crock, crockery jug and butter churn filled with water, two layers of 5/8 drywall and lots of tile over cement board .
When the fire gets too hot, turn on the ceiling fan and your disguised heat sinks suck up the excess heat to be released later – works in reverse in the summer.
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Gideon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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Last edited by Gideon on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kaktus
Tar Sands
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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benzoil wrote:
| Quote: | | My original plan was to heat the one room with the stove for now |
Then I suppose you need a stove that is suited for that room. If you use it all day long you want to get into the routine of loading it full with wood - leave it for some hours - load it full ..., and you dont want the room to get to hot when it peaks(!). you can of course vetilate the heat but you dont want to spend so much time carrying wood. a big stove wants to have big fire.
I suppose Heineken dont want to throw out an old darling. its easy to get attached to them.
perhaps you need to find a store with staff that know what you should have when you tell them the layout and the type of house you have. there are a lot of nice not so pricey pieces now with big glasses so you can see the flames.
for the ones interested in ancient stoves: the Swedish ceramic stove, invented in the 18th century and still outstanding. the smoke travels a labyrinth to heat the massive stove.
Images: http://www.kakelugnsmagasinet.nu/
http://www.dataphone.se/~ncteknik/We_are_setting_up_a_Swedish_ceramic_stove.html |
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kaktus
Tar Sands
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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PS you also need to make sure about the chimney (you may know these things, I dont). It may need to get fixed. How is the capacity.
-kaktus |
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mushroompro
Coal
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Fredrik
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Joined: Nov 05, 2006
Posts: 393
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: wood pellets resource |
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Thanks, added that one to my assorted bookmarks.
In the future, even pellets may become a "luxury" product, since it takes a considerable amount of energy to manufacture them from raw wood, if they're no longer easily available as a by-product of paper industry. In many instances (like central heating plants) it could be more cost-effective just to burn logs.
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kaktus
Tar Sands
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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| Quote: | | In the future, even pellets may become a "luxury" product |
Yes that's a big question. I've done some reading. The cost of transport isnt very big it seems, out of the total. Already today a lot is transported from Canada to Europe for example which shows that new patterns of trade are developing. Also when this industry grows the price will hopefully get more stable since you can easier even out termporary shortages in specific markets.
I suppose logs will be possible first for the very big and the very small users. |
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pstarr
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Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 7089
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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| Gideon wrote: | The best set up I've seen is a masonry heater/stove. It's essentially a huge block of masonry in the middle of the room with a burn box in the bottom and lots of passageways throughout.
You burn a load of wood at full bore, which means very clean, and the heat is stored in all of the masonry. After the fire is out, the masonry radiates heat to the room for hours. Sounds good on paper. I 've never seen them in action.
The idea of thermal mass in the house has merit. Me, I'm a believer in insulation. If you insulate and seal your house, then heating gets much easier. |
Hi Gideon. Glad you mentioned this. I am building a new home in Redwood country and hope to install a masonry stove. Heat Kit builds and ships a core of pre-cut and fitted firebricks, a metal door, clean outs and dampers etc. I would hire a local stone mason to assemble the core and cover it with decorative brick, stone, cement, etc. and my wife's beautiful handmade fired tiles.
According to the company a full load of wood (60 lb.) puts out 6 killowatts. Because of design requirments you have to use a minimum load, which is 30 lb every other day and gives 750 watts. I have no idea how to translate these values into practical heating information for my size of home (1,600 sq.ft) in a 2 level central clear story (atrium) I'm concerned the stove is overkill for this moderate climate. Anyone have any ideas?
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pstarr
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Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 7089
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source |
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Gideon, thanks for the numbers. I just spoke to a 'Title 24' energy consultant (all new homes in Calif. must have energy calcs done) and she say my 'heating load' is 67,000 btus. Does that refer to the maximum amount? It sure doesn't sound like an average around here.
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mistel
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