[Food] Production - Greenhouses

bshirt · Heavy Crude Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 437

I've just finished my solar greenhouse for way up north (S. Dakota).

It's 20 foot east-west by 17 foot north-south. About as big as I can make it with a 50 foot east-west property line. The south side glazing is double walled polycarbonate at a 63 degree angle for the low, low winter sun. Smile

It's got the all important air-lock entry way (double door) on the east side.

If there is clear skies it'll get up to 90 degree F in the greenhouse even with -20 F outside. Cloudy days stunt it to high 50's or low 60's though.

I trenched a 7 foot line back to the house where the wood/coal burning boiler heats hot water to a massive radiator in the greenhouse via pex piping though three inch pvc piping. Also a two inch pipe for electric 220 vac wires.

Next is to finish the LED supplemental lighting and hydroponic grow tubs and pots.

I should "finally" start growing next month.

Please wish me luck! Smile

skyemoor

Any pictures and construction details to share?
What are you using to store daytime temperature gain for nighttime re-release?
I'm contemplating something very similar, though due to my exposed hillside, will likely use cinderblock for the north and west sides. I'm trying to figure out how to insulate the outside in a manner that is not expensive or unbecoming (north wall will face a picky neighbor that I don't want to alienate).
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bshirt · Heavy Crude Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 437

Pops

Sounds really cool (or warm in this case) bs!

I was proud when the temps were in the teens a couple days ago and my lone tomato volunteer test subject didn’t freeze in the greenhouse - the rest of the seedlings were enjoying life on and around my dining room table. It has been so stinking warm; 85 last Monday, then so cold it scared me into bringing them inside where there isn’t much sun when the temps got in the teens by Friday that they have really grown weak legs in the space of a week.

At 18 degrees it was 35 in the greenhouse overnight after a very overcast day – encouraging but not great.

I only have 2 layers of uv-resistant poly, 3 halogen lamps and a seed-starting mat in a 5x20 area partitioned off with R-3or4 foam boards. I have 3 - 55gal drums and several dark buckets of water but they don’t really get much sun since they are stuck in the corners.

Anyway, good luck!
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bshirt · Heavy Crude Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 437

Thanks Pops!

Well, finally done with the LEDs, tubs, valves, piping of the interior tubs to the resevoir etc, etc.

ok....next week is it.

WooHOO! Smile

Ludi

If you also want to raise chickens, you might look into heating the greenhouse with chickens, as described in "Solviva" by Anna Edey.
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kpeavey · Expert Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 811

In my greenhouse sits a 55 gallon plastic drum (from a slaughterhouse, used to contain disinfectant). Inside the drum, sits 5 cinder blocks and some bricks, gthe remaining space filled with water.
I have some foam rubber around the sides. I also have a small pump, 12 watts, 150 GPH. The water is pumped out of the greenhouse , through 500 feet of 3/4" PEP, black plastic irrigation tubing, and return s to drain freely back into the tank. The pump is plugged into a timer to turn it on when the sun gets above the crepe myrtle on the east and turns off when the sun drops below the palm on the west. The water in the tank will reach temperatures of up to 120 degrees in January. This is sufficient to keep the greenhouse warm into the early morning. In 3 years with this system, I have never lost a single plant to frost, but we don't get a whole lot of frost in north Florida anyway.
cost of running the system for a month: 12 watts/hourx6 hoursx30 days=2.16 kWh/mo @$0.11/kWh=24 cents/month
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Pops

bshirt · Heavy Crude Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 437

Speaking of barrels....for thermal mass, I used 30 & 55 gallon barrels filled with water for a total of 1100 gallons of water.

It really helps to stabilize the temperature.

kpeavey · Expert Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 811

I've been away from the boards for some time and find myself playing catchup. Having gone back over many of the posts in this thread, I find that musch of it is concerned with planning and design, with limited content involving function. I'll tell you what I do with mine. I'm interested in hearing what you do with yours.

I use mine primarily for vegetable plant propagation during fall through spring. Usually by the end of spring the roof blows off and the summer in northern Florida is just too darn hot for a greenhouse.
In the spring, when the greenhouse temperature starts climbing I use it to house my chicks, about a dozen, keeping them inside until they no longer fit through the chain link fence of the dog kennel I keep them in outside.

I started out using the 72 count cells and trays, filling them with soil, adding seeds. The result was seedlings a few inches tall ready to transplant into the garden beds. Over the past few years I have made some changes to my operating system, made lots of improvements to the greenhouse, tried lots of different plants.

Soil:
I sift compost from the heap, mix it with about an equal volume of soil from the garden beds, store it in a tub in the greenhouse for easy access. I don't add vermiculite or perlite because I am a tightwad. I scoop out the soil with a green plastic cup to fill the cells. After the seeds go in I cover them with peat moss to keep the mildew at bay. A different soil blend may work better, but my results are excellent.

Cells and pots:
I use the cheap plastic 2 count cells and trays, PVC pipe, and assorted pots of assorted material, whatever is handy, free, cheap.

Water:
I'm on city water. To allow the chlorine to dissipate I fill milk jugs with water, let them sit for a few days. This is also handy as I have not yet hooked up running water inside the GH.

Shelves:
I started with a 6" wide board sitting on concrete blocks, added a small junky end table, then a piece of plywood, then some plastic utility shelves which I find to be crap, but are holding on. Ideally, level wood, painted shelving is desired.

Seed:
Open pollenated from the garden when available, storebought when not available.

The System:
I fill the cells with soil blend, add the seeds of various plants, usually 4 different plants to a tray 18 of each plant, then spray water to moisten the seeds, cover with peat, then fill the tray with about 1/2" of water. This puts enough water on the seeds to get them started, and enough water in the tray to get the soil moist without drowning.
I took a vinyl mini blind to the chop saw, cut it up into 4" sections, use the pieces for labelling.
Set the tray on a bottom shelf, come back to it every day or two to keep it watered.
when the plants show up the tray gets moved to a higher shelf.
When the plants are 2-3" high I repot the best plants into 3"PVC cut to 6" long. I fill the PVC with the same soil mix, use a fork to move the plant, fill in around the plant with more soil mix, put the plant on a higher shelf.
The plants continue to grow in the 3x6 cells for a month, at which time the best are moved to the beds.
I dig a hole big enough and deep enough to set the entire cell in, backfill the hole, a few taps and I can lift the cell without disturbing the roots of the plant.
The plants go into the beds at optimum spacing, with 6" roots, no weeds, a months head start. I mulch them immediatly to keep the weeds down. The plants are big enough to withstand a few bugs. The roots are big enough for me to be working for a week without watering. the stems are big enough to hold up against all but the meanest of cutworms.
I keep this process going from the start of fall to the end of spring, starting new trays every few days. Rather than 50 tomato plants all at once, I put 6 tomato plants in the beds every coupe of weeks.
I am not overwhelmed with a big harvest which I have to can/freeze/give away. I have enough plants in the cycle to give me what I need when I want it. I do this with about 40 different vegetables, herbs, and some flowers.

When the plants go into the beds I'll put some tomatoes over by the pecan tree. The next set goes in by the driveway. The next ends up by the fence. I'll have small patches of a particular plant in several locations. If the bugs or a disease gets out of hand in one of the patches, I can clear that patch without losing all the plants in the garden.

I also try different means of propagation. Cuttings are particularly successful. I have never succeeded in growing Rosemary from seed. I shot the lock off the wallet spending $5 on a rosemary plant. I can take a few cuttings from the plant, strip off the bottom 2 sets of leaves, stick the end in a cell. I now have so many rosemary plants I don't know what to do. Thyme, sage, oregano, have all worked. I'll try more plants over time. I can select a fine healthy plant that has already proven its hardiness in my garden system and reproduce clones.

I bought a wood planer last year. I came packed in a styrofoam box 2" wide, a foot long, 10" deep. I took the styrofoam, filled it with soil mix, transplanted carrots , let them do their thing. In 3 months I had 36 straight, clean, bug free carrots to give to friends and eat for dinner. I repeated the operation with radishes, similar results. I would do it again but the chickens ate the styrofoam this spring.

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An unexpected situation occurs in my GH I did not expect. With the visqueen roof I get a great deal of condensation. The place is airtight. When I open the door, the change in pressure knocks all the moisture loose, rainging down on me and everything inside.

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My GH is makeshift, assembled from whatever materials I can get my hands on. 2 walls are double paned safety glass. Lowe's and Home Depot will sell a new door to a customer and contract the installation. The installer shows up, puts in the new door, hauls away the old one. They usually will discard the old door. Stylish french doors are in vogue. People are replacing their old sliding glass doors. These doors can be had for cheap...$10-$20 each for 34"x72" double walled safety glass. I did some installing of these doors for Lowe's, kept the old doors. I have enough on hand for a 30' wide GH if I ever get the time to build a new one. If you can find the installers, they would be happy to pick up a few bucks and save themselves a dump run.
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Pops

Great idea on the old sliders!
In a similar vien, when in CA I met a fence builder who hauled old redwood fencing to the dump. Whenever he had a load of nice fencing he would bring it by stack it up and grab the 12-pack I always had in the outside fridge – sometime he brought 1in. and even 5/4", virtually clear redwood with only the bottom rotted. I used it to make all my benches, potting bench and lots more outside type stuff.

Here I have a double deck bench setup built from treated 2x4s and chicken wire tops. As I mentioned above, a portion of the lower deck is sealed off and I have foam board on the benchtop, then a seed starting mat and then some of that vinyl paneling stuff on top of the mat. On the vinyl I drew a grid and labeled the squares a, b, c… 1, 2, 3… I use a little soil block maker (3/4”) and place one group of blocks in each square. Each square hold 20 soil blocks, there are 95 squares so in theory I could start almost 2,000 seeds.

The idea with soil blocks is they are supposed to Air-Prune themselves whereby the roots stop growing at the edge of the block so they don’t become root bound. That probably works in the larger soil blocks but not so well in the tiny size. However, the ability to quickly start a bunch of seed in a small thermostatically controlled space and virtually eliminate empty cells in the 6-packs is worthwhile.

Way back I bought a gross of 6-packs. I usually get 3 or 4 usings out of each one, except for what I sell. For larger and single plants to sell I use plastic drink cups with a hole drilled in the bottom 6 or 8 at a time. Also several neighbors save the containers they get from elsewhere. I like my tomatoes to have really long leggs so I can plant them a foot or more in the ground, for them I usually transplant them at least one more time so the don't get root-bound.

The mini-blind trick is also a good idea, I’ve used everything from ice-cream sticks to plexiglass scraps. Just be sure to use indelible ink, like a Sharpie.

I have used all kinds of soil mixes. Because the consistency of the soil block mix has to be just right to hold together I use the expensive store-bought stuff. Same goes for what I sell, the worst thing you could do is sell a pile of weed seeds along with your ‘maters!

Back in CA where the GH and gardens were my main hobby I did lots of rooting of shrubs, roses, grapes – you name it! I too enjoyed rooting rosemary and making little topiaries – lots of fun and cheap gifts besides! I also made a boxwood knot garden with over 150 plants – all from cuttings. Those dudes are like $6 each for a 1gal size! I experimented with all kinds of mixes from straight course sand to sand/pearilite to sand/pearlite/compost.

So anyway, typically I make a few soil blocks on the seed mat, place the seed, cover as req’d, and note the grid location (A/3, E/12, etc) and plant in a little notebook. In due time I transplant the soil block into a sixpack or cup and set it on the upper bench. If I did plant out the whole seed mat I would almost have enough room to transplant them to 6-packs.

Since we are still battling weeds big time, we have heavy woodchip mulch on the beds so I even started beans in the GH – of course not in soil blocks – just straight to 6-packs.

About now the GH starts getting unpredictable, it might be cloudy and then blazing and then rainy – all in one day. It is hard to keep things watered correctly. As well I only have the south wall and a portion of the roof open so summer sun isn’t very good. I hope to be able to get back into rooting as I have several small fruits and native fruit trees I want to propagate, I suppose I’ll have to do them in the open…
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Pops

BTW, one downfall of trying to sell some seedlings is that I hate to throw out a nice plant and also hate to turn folks away.

Consequently we have a dozen squash, but only 4 cucumbers and 6 melons…
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Cornelian

Great thread! Smile

I am installing a greenhouse over the next few weeks - mainly to extend growing season and perhaps even to be able to grow through winter (we have a cool temperate climate here and it rarely approaches freezing - I have had tomatoes in a mini greenhouse this spring, which has been colder than normal, and they have just really taken off).

Some of the ideas on here,, and links, have been really helpful - thanks to all contributors. Smile

Pops

Just thought I'd bump this thread up.

We got a little bit of a late start getting our seeds started this year but things were progressing nicely - then a big t-storm with hail/wind/rain came up, split the plastic on the roof, which in turn funneled buckets down onto the seed-starting cabinet whose plastic also leaked enough to wash away most of the soil blocks.

Anyway we started over (good to be a seed saver) and things are progressing apace. At least it has been cold with record rain and we are expecting a freeze over the weekend so we ain't so bad.

Good news is The Osage Orange cuttings are doing great, and I may be the only one in the county with 4in. tall beans and corn! We planted them in 6x6 plug trays to get a head start with all the cold wet weather - we hardly seed anything in the ground anymore.

They'll go out as soon as the mud goes away.

BTW I am trying my first OP sweet corn (SU) from Johnnys Select Seeds:
www.johnnyseeds.com
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kpeavey · Expert Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 811

I had a leak show up in the visqueen roof. It could have been anywhere, but chose to appear and drip only on the 3 way electrical cord. The drip shorted the cord, melted it, along with 3 extension cords, melted through the hose underneath it which runs to the solar heat collector, a pump which was also in the jumble, as well as the astroturf floor.

Last month a tornado came through town, close to home. Blew the roof clean off. A week later the wood door, had a glass panel, had reached its expiration date, simply fell apart. I think I got most of the glass up.

Its time I built a new one anyway. I'll do it right this time, maybe even spend some money on it. That will be a new thing.

In the meantime, I still have stuff in there doing its thing. Peppers and tomatoes, carrots and kohlrabi, spinach and cabbage.

I'm also starting more ingredients for a Honeymoon Sandwich.
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