For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
In the larger scheme of things... I would say we are moving towards having a single language that will eventually consist of nothing but 0s and 1s. This is not at all a "degradation" but rather an extreme perfection through which language finally reaches its death. English, the most mechanical language with the most nouns, is already much closer to this.
(If the doomers are right, and we get a Mad Max scenario, then the exact opposite will occur. The survivors will be split up into isolated regions so that a multiplicity of languages will evolve. In the North-West US, perhaps some will evolve into a totally different species or will have no language at all.)
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1057 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Below are excerpts from the recent poll comments.
First of all, I am really surprised at the responses to the poll after I posted my observations.
Secondly, I had no idea that SPG posted the poll question, so there was no ridicule
aimed at her personally. I really expected a "thank you for the typo correction comment" to be honest. I thought it was in the best interest of the site administrator, Aaron, and the owners of peakoil.com, to maintain a very professional public website while the electricity is still on, which implies a professional sense of responsibility by the moderators, and that includes checking spelling and grammar when they are tasked to add a new poll question to the site's mainpage. I certainly didn't expect to be personally and publicly insulted. Doesn't the COC apply to moderators too?
Perhaps the tone of my comment was just not taken right, having that "Monty Python" sarcastic style. Perhaps it's just the teacher experience coming out being critical of misspellings. (I have been a substitute teacher, and have taught two freshman chemistry classes at the University of Houston.) Perhaps it's my recent training at work which includes typing up reports of the chemical and microscopy analyses for environmental investigators. Checking for typos and trying to maintain proper grammar is important in my work. The reports are essentially legal documents.
<<excerpts>>
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by PeakOiler (James Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-dingle-dingle-dangle-
dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz ticolensic-grander-knotty-spellkinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-
spelterwasser-kurtzlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-
nuernburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-
gumberaber-schonendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm) on Wednesday, August 15 @ 07:11:46 EDT
First of all, it's spelled suffice, not sufice.
Further, the poll question is just wrong. It should state something such as "What is the solution to the world's overpopulation problem?"
The site loses, (not looses, lol) credibility with misspellings and poor grammar. (Not that I don't make mistakes as well...)
The poll question almost seems to suggest what is needed for overpopulation to occur, not what should be done to reduce overpopulation.
Doesn't anyone use spell check or a dictionary?
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by Nano on Wednesday, August 15 @ 12:47:57 EDT
I agree dieoff will be the key population control mechanism.
About spelling: I couldn't give a toss. I am much more irritated by wrong thinking than by wrong spelling. Better one misspelt true word than a flawless sentence full of useless frigging garbage.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by smallpoxgirl on Wednesday, August 15 @ 13:28:31 EDT
If all it takes to offend you is a bit of poor spelling, you must spend a lot of your life being offended. However, I did correct my misspelling.
If you can't understand what the question is asking, you really should be playing with crayons not a keyboard.
"It's a damn poor mind that can't think of at least three ways to spell any word." - Andrew Jackson.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by kjmclark on Wednesday, August 15 @ 16:26:25 EDT)
I said economics will take care of the problems. Dieoff is just demand destruction by another name, after all.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by aflurry on Wednesday, August 15 @ 17:44:57 EDT
"Enforcable" is also misspelled.
Spelling will clearly be civilization's first Peak Oil casualty.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by smallpoxgirl on Wednesday, August 15 @ 18:17:52 EDT
"Spelling will clearly be civilization's first Peak Oil casualty."
Thank god. People who are so obsessed with spelling really should get out in the world more.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by WisJim on Wednesday, August 15 @ 23:12:41 EDT
Too bad that this has become a spelling argument--but, the English language has so many words that sound the same or are close to one another in spelling that accurate spelling is necessary in order to convey the meaning that you want. Those of you unconcerned about spelling are also obviously unconcerned about accurately conveying your ideas, too, or maybe are unable to have ideas that are worthy of the effort required to spelling properly.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by smallpoxgirl on Thursday, August 16 @ 11:51:49 EDT
Seriously, I think anyone who gets this agro about spelling, probably gets upset and has a bad morning if the barrista puts too much foam on their grande mocha latte. Get a life guys. Geeks who sit in office buildings clicking on computers obsess about spelling. Those ecological niches are going a way. All those people in clean pressed suits queuing up at Starbucks, they're walking corpses. They're dead. They just haven't realized it yet.
Learn to plow a field. Learn to butcher an animal and tan the hide. Learn to run a chainsaw. Learn to fix a car using junkyard parts. Learn to milk a goat. You will soon care less about spelling than I do.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by aflurry on Thursday, August 16 @ 12:24:38 EDT
"agro" is short for agriculture.
"aggro" is short for aggressive.
just trying to clarify.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by aflurry on Thursday, August 16 @ 12:49:24 EDT
I was just joking around but seriously, learning spelling is part of learning language. A word has a root and a history that informs its meaning. Careless spelling steals meaning from language. And careless spelling in public encourages sloppiness in others. The overall coherence of discussion is sacrificed.
Each spelling error on its own does little damage, but in aggregate they make the conversation more confusing and dumb.
Since we don't have editors to help us clarify our writing, we might as well accept the criticism of the people we are writing to. Writing is for communication after all, so what sense does it make to get hostile with your readers if they ask for clarification?
All that said, if you can make the large logical leap that everyone who cares about spelling works in an office and shops at Starbucks, i feel more comfortable making the leap that someone who can't keep "they're" and "their" straight, must be a little bit retarded.
I mean typos are fine, we all let them slip by. (I'm sure there are some in this comment - this font is tiny.) But some spelling errors are as bad as ubiquitous malapropisms like, "for all intensive purposes." My god, when i read that phrase I wonder how I am supposed to make sense of something even the author doesn't understand.
Re: Overpopulation requires: (Score: 1)
by Heineken on Thursday, August 16 @ 18:39:50 EDT
Smallpoxgirl is very smart and very educated. She need make no apologies.
I've spent a career fixing up the writing of scientists and health care professionals, who have understandably been focused on other priorities.
(SPG, if you ever want to run survey material past me before posting it, I'd be happy to give you editorial suggestions that will avoid people's snide remarks in the future.)
<<end excerpts>>
See? Even Heineken is offering some spelling help suggestions by offering his editing experience. Although it would be faster just to use spell check...
btw, I've never been to Starbucks. Is the coffee good?
Signed,
James Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-dingle-dingle-dangle-
dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz ticolensic-grander-knotty-spellkinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-
spelterwasser-kurtzlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-
nuernburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-
gumberaber-schonendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm. _________________ About my avatar: A glassy sphere and a mineral particle magnified 1500 times using a scanning electron microscope.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6141 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Your post helps me understand where you're coming from, PeakOiler.
And I certainly agree that clear, correct writing is desirable, and that such writing is on the way out. This has consequences that go far, far beyond grammar and spelling. Screwy grammar and spelling are just the tip of the iceberg, but somehow they've become the poster children for defective writing.
Most people tend to be quite sensitive about criticism of problems in their writing---particularly when these comments are presented in a public manner. This creates a challenge for the editor, who must manage egos as much as words.
I guess we tend to defend what we're good at, and may disparage or dismiss those fields in which we are weak. I've seen this phenomenon working again and again in people.
I do think we have to recognize that people who have spent a lifetime studying, say, crystallography at the expense of disciplines like English literature and rhetoric are simply not likely to be equipped with the best writing skills (there are notable exceptions to this, of course).
Anyway, I counsel tactfulness and diplomacy whenever confronting others with their errors. I too have abandoned this advice at times when I've felt rushed or impatient, and I always regret it later.
To paraphrase something I once wrote elsewhere, the editor ideally serves as an unseen bridge between the writer, whose goal is to be understood, and the reader, whose goal is to understand. It isn't an easy job. I did it for 27 years and would probably not want to repeat the experience! I rewrote mountains of scholarly papers, including thousands for Science mag. But I'm not sure that my input will have made much difference in the end.
In the end we're all just people, frail and flawed, momentarily touching antennae as we scurry toward our doom. Perhaps SPG is right, and the details of our communications don't really matter that much. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1057 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Thank you, Heineken. _________________ About my avatar: A glassy sphere and a mineral particle magnified 1500 times using a scanning electron microscope.
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Its Losing, not Loosing!!
Laughs_Last wrote:
Thuja wrote:
Its Losing, not Loosing!!
Its = It (possesses).
It's = It is.
Do I win a prize?
Although I sympathize with the OP and his beefs with grammar, that's some funny crap right there. If you are gonna bitch about grammar, you better start making sure your own is sound : P
(For the record, I know my grammar is below acceptable much of the time, but I don't defend it)
Joined: Aug 24, 2005 Posts: 295 Location: Costa Geriatrica, Spain
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Its Losing, not Loosing!!
Resurrection wrote:
Although I sympathize with the OP and his beefs with grammar, that's some funny crap right there. If you are gonna bitch about grammar, you better start making sure your own is sound : P
or as the New Testament puts it slightly more poetically:
Mathew 7:3
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
...actually I think we're all a bunch of loosers wasting out lives on this one.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6141 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Sure, you can write bad English or speak bad English, just as you can drive badly or garden ineptly or be a lousy carpenter or plumber.
English is very easy to learn badly and use badly, which may explain its popularity in today's rush-rush world.
But there's a cost. You communicate less effectively and with less power. You confuse and puzzle and irritate and bore. Your words get lost in the maelstrom of competing verbiage. You don't have the impact you might be seeking. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 987 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Resurrection wrote:
Heineken wrote:
You don't have the impact you might be seeking.
Exactly.
Which is exactly why I can still make a living at the moment conducting "Conversational English' courses in Poland. Most of my students are Advanced level. They just want to fine-tune their use of the language so that they don't appear too provincial while conducting business in the EU. Actually, most of them know more about English grammar than I do. On many occasions, I had to do some research before I even knew what they were saying they needed help with (Reported Speech, Modals, Conditionals - wtf are you talking about?)... I actually know more about the English language now than I ever did living in the states.
Funny story. A friend of mine actually failed English while living in Sweden for a year in his high school years. He had to repeat the course when he came back to the states in order to graduate. _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6141 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
My brother, who has a Ph.D. in classical philology (basically, ancient Greek and Latin), recently started teaching Latin after a 25-year career in computers. Although he continued to study Latin and Greek throughout that long period, he says that his teaching experience has greatly sharpened his skills and knowledge.
Teaching has got to be the best way to REALLY learn something. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Deterioration of English has many causes, I suspect. The change in the pace of life that came with industrialization and new technologies. Before radio, attending political speeches was considered entertainment. Public debates were popular. Not only has English writing and speech declined, but also the ability to read, play and write music. In the nineteenth century, most middle class homes had a piano and learning to read music was considered part of an education. Families and friends gathered 'round the piano in the parlor to sing together and to one another. Because of Edison and Marconi, that tradition declined as did the publication of musical scores. One of my passions has been the piano bar which has gone out of fashion. I really enjoy singing with a bunch of folks.
I had a college English teacher who was not so fussy about spelling. He said Faulkner couldn't spell. However, he was quite fussy about sentence construction and paragraph development.
Oh, I digress--an unfortunate trait. My pet peeve is the misuse of the word flaunt. I will hear public radio announcers speaking of flaunting the law or conventions. In that context, the proper word is flout. Now Merriam-Webster states that this can no longer be considered a mistake because of long usage. However, so few people now use the word flout which conveys a specific meaning and now use flaunt to convey both ostentatious display and disregard or contempt.
But digressing is fun, isn't it? As an intellectual type of guy with few practical skills, I doubt I will be one to survive what is to come. A little diversion boosts my spirits.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6141 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
In the realm of spoken English, here's one that irritates me: "an historic." The original motivation for using the indefinite article "an" instead of "a" was that the "h" in "historic" is often silent, or almost silent. Fine, but now newscasters and such often use the "an" while pronouncing the "h" as a hard "h." They've got it fixed in their pretty little heads that "an historic" sounds educated and intelligent and clever, no matter how "historic" is pronounced.
The modern (and, to me, sensible) trend, at least in the US, has been to pronounce the "h" in "historic" as a hard "h." So the correct indefinite article is then "a," not "an."
I have a wonderful book by a dead journalist named Copperud called "American Usage and Style: The Consensus" that exposes hundreds of these foibles. I think it's out of print, but if you can lay your hands on a copy you'll find it enormously entertaining and informative. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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