Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe

Vortex · Coal Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Sweden

Here is a link to a site which has a lot of information regarding climate, soil and vegetation in Sweden.

http://www-markinfo.slu.se/eng/index.html

The statistic data is from 1961-1990. Not really up to date, but it will give a general background despite the climate changes that have occured after 1990.

Bas

evilgenius

I just came from Southern France. I met a fellow that complained about there being too many trees. He said that a generation ago there weren't so many trees because there were more people working the land. He said that so many people had gone to the cities that now a lot of once worked land has trees on it for the first time in generational memory. After he said that I looked around at the land. You can see the tell tale signs of disused terraces here and there. You do see old uninhabited buildings.

It is a rich land. It doesn't get too cold in winter. It does get hot in summer. There are scorpions and a few different kinds of snakes. Local property control can be a pain in the ass but I don't think as bad as say, England. Water is abundant. Trains run most places. Everybody did, however, say that the French are extremely hard to get along with. The French bureaucracy is a nightmare.

davep · Expert Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 1244 Location: Europe

Vortex · Coal Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Sweden

Bas

nocar · Intermediate Crude Joined: Nov 05, 2004 Posts: 676

Bas, in the Swedish zone 4, I believe it is easy to grow onions, from sets or shallots. Pears and cucumbers are more questionable.

nocar

Homesteader

You can also make a cold frame using a raised bed with panes of glass or plexiglass to cover your plantings. It really heats up. Another thought would be a hot frame made by digging down about 1 foot into the ground and putting in fresh manure. Chicken is really hot. On the top of this put at least 8 inches of soil. Plant whatever tender plants on the top. You can also cover with panes of glass or plexiglass. You would be able to grow many different kinds of plants all year round using this method.

nocar · Intermediate Crude Joined: Nov 05, 2004 Posts: 676

Homesteader, where do you live?

skyemoor

cephalotus

Hello everyone,

what about Germany?

First the "bad facts" (at least for peak oil sceraios)

- 82 million people (quite densely populated)
- one of the largest importer of oil, also high import rates on hard coal, 100% import rate on uranium and high import rate on natural gas
- there is not enough area to get all the energy from biomas

BUT:

- Germany is one of the most energy efficient countries in the world (GDP / energy, only few countries are better, i.e. Japan)
- German GDP has grown by 26% since 1990, but energy consumption has fallen by 4,6%
- Germans are already used to high energy prices (because of high tax on energy), converted to US $ we pay 25-30 cent / kWh electricity and 6-7 US $ for 1 gallon of fuel.
- the agrar sector is quite industrialised but high energy efficient (East German milk needs the least energy in production per litre throughout Europe). Only 1% of the primary energie in Germany is used in the agricultural sector
- Germany produces about 88% of its food (incl. food for animals), but if consumers would eat just a little bit less meat than 100% should be very easily achieveable, if necessary.
On the other hand, a typical German spends only 11% of his/her income on food (and related goods like cigarettes and alcohol, to my knowledge the smallest number in the world), so raising prices on the world market could be absorbed quite easily (at least if you have a job)
- German politics do know about peak oil and global warming and they try to act now. (not hard enough imho, but there is quite a lot going on behind the scenes, if you have some insight knowledge). It starts with the adaoption to climate change (there are lot of studies going on, what trees we will have to plant now, what crops, how high the dams have to be built now, to sustain expected floods in upcomming years and so on...)
- Germany is now worldwide Nr. 1 in the production of wind energy, Nr. 1 in the production of electricity from photovoltaics (which is quite amazing if you look at the rather mediocre solar input of 900W/m²*a-1200W/m²*a here, compared to other nations) and Nr. 1 in the production of "biodiesel" (made from canola).
The growing rates in some sectors of reneweable energies are very high, it was at ~5% for electricity during many years (water), but is growing very fast now to about 14% in 2007 (and water remains at 5%, because almost evrey useable river is used). German government wants to reach 27% by 2020 and 45% by 2030. Most of the rest should come from natural gas and coal / lignite.
Germany wants to get rid of its reamining nuclear reactors till ~2020. This is doable.
- But Germany does not only produce renewable energies, they do also build the machines... Germany is Nr.1 in building wind generators, Nr. 2 in building photovotaik moduls (an extremly fast growing sector here) and Nr 1. (?) in building "biogas" facilities. The time will come (soon) when world demands that kind of energy, because it gets cheaper each year, while fossil energy gets more expensive, German industrie is prepared to build and sell that stuff...
Currently there are about 300.000 employes in that sector and this is growing fast.
German biofuel sector mostly uses "Biodiesel" which is not energy and area efficient (better than ethanol from corn, but not good enough), but there is made lots of effort to make "3rd generation" fueal from biomass, mainly btl (biomass to liquid), which is several times more efficient than biodiesel or ethanol (corn).
But the area is not enough to power our current cars from own production, no matter what we do.
The mobility sector has to switch more to electricity. This can be public transport in cities or railroad (Germany has a very good railroad and public transport system, compared to other countries). It is also quite easy to live without a car. I live in a city and have 3 minutes to walk to work. On that way there are several small stores where I can buy food and things for my daily use. I can walk within 10 minutes to the next railroad station which can bring me to almost every part of Germany within maximum 10 hours and the next s-bahn(?) station is just 2 minutes away.
If I need a car I can rent one, which is a lot cheaper to me than buying one. For my work I can use Toyota Prius hybrids and natural gas driven VWs.
Even if gasoline would cost 10 US$ or 20 US$ / gallon I can live quite happily. If food will cost twice as much as it will cost now it doesn't hurt me to much, if electricity cost twice or three times as much as it does cost now (I doubt that it will get so high, wind power is a lot cheaper to produce now compared to what I pay, of course there are other costs) it wouldn't hurt me, too.
For those that need/want to commute to work by car and those who can't afford 10-20 US $ / gallone an electric car could be a solution (as could be car sharing or public transport).
I hope that the German car industry will adopt fast enough to peak oil. At the moment it doesn't look so, but peak oil could be a huge chance for new cars, that do cosnume much less energy.
A Loremo (German car, maybe in production by 2010) needs less than 2l/100km (>120 miles/gallone)
As long as there is oil available (but just expensive) there will be a huge demand for eneryg efficient new cars, for those taht can not afford to commute with SUV & Co to work.
Peak oil can be a huge chance for the industry and the wealth of a country and its popoulation, if you only react fast enough.

It can be done.

Others may buy weapons and try to fight for the last pieces (and if those ar consume, too, what after that?) or they might invest into fussion or new nuclear power plant systems (plutonium breeding, thorium, because U235 is quite limited), I do think that wind, solar and geothermal energy with some biomass and water, in combination which much better energy efficincy will cost less, will work better, will create many new (good) jobs and can lead to wealth and a better living in this century.

And that's in the middle of Europe, now surrounded by friends (much better than living "in" the frontier between West and East till 1989).
I don't think that I will need a rifle, I just will have to pay a bit more for my energy and maybe a bit more for my food, but will benefit from much less pollution (except global warming, which we sadly can't stop) and a much more secure energy supply than I have now. Maybe the mass consumption will also slow down, but I do not think that this is a bad thing, I don't want / need a new mobile phone every 10 months.

High energy prices could make human work much more desireable thzan it is now and I also do think that this is a good thing. Almost all humans need some kind of productive work to be happy...

best regards

PS: Germany reduced its once quite large reserves on hard coal by 99% (!) in 2004. The coal is still there of course (if everything else fails), but it is not efficient or desierable to use it now, because importing hard coal from Australia & Co is cheaper.

Bas

first off, welcome to the forum cephalotus, and thank you for your broad sketch on Germany Smile

Indeed Germany has the most MW's of windpower installed (though I believe a Danish company called Vestas dominates the industry) and Germany dominates the solarpower industry, though I'm not sure that they have the most MW's of solar power installed, it's definately above average, especially for a country so far north as you say. China btw has about half of al solar panel companies in the world and eventhough they are very small, you can reasonably expect that this will be another industry that will be dominated by China in the future, this however does not do away with the fact that of the big countries indeed Germany seems to best prepared for a new energy paradigm, but ofcourse a lot of work remains to be done.

So I think that indeed Germany is very good country to be in if we don't see a total breakdown of society (the issue that prompted me to start this thread) due to peakoil and economic fallout. In such a case I think that none of the continental European countries is a good place to be in, especially the densily populated areas of Germany.

Germany does look to be in a good spot when it comes to climate change, though a potential flood of refugees from southern Europe and Holland (can we come stay over for while? Smile

).

Anyway, for me personally Germany is a reason to stay put where I am now, which is of cycling distance of Germany (I made a few sunday afternoon rides into Germany in the past) and above sealevel.

Once again, welcome to the board and stick around (among other continental European countries, Germany has been sorely underrepresented on the forum thusfar.)
_________________
"The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."

- Abraham Lincoln

cephalotus

Bas

yes I think the "velo-mobile" concept here is second to none in the western world and healthy too Smile

I agree with most of your viewpoints and I like your positive "can-do" attitude. Quite a few of us here lack that attitude and tend to go on the worst case scenario. For those reasons the more positive people here often get shot down, often by personal attacks rather than by sound reasoning, so prepare to stand firm. Also if you think something warrants moderating you can send a personal message to me or other moderators and we'll see if we should do something about it (though we're quite hesitant censoring stuff)

thanks for your information, and indeed Germany is a very well prepared country IMO, which is a point that has never, to my knowledge, been made here on the forum. I look forward to reading more about your "German" perspectives on just about anything Smile

_________________
"The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."

- Abraham Lincoln

Vortex · Coal Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Sweden

I saw something very interesting today in a newspaper.

A former military building for sale, located in a mountain (think a "vault" from the Fallout games). It is built to withstand nuclear blasts. Inside a 800 sqm room, a 500 sqm two store building is located with all facilities (beds, kitchen, WC etc.).

I do not know how they get the water and how the plumbing works. A similar building (the Swedes did a lot of building like these due to the Cold War) near where I live does have its own water, taken through a deep drilled well.

The entrance seem to be somewhat camouflaged. Inside the blast doors, there is a 120 meter long entrance. The rest of the building is straight to the left, I think the long entrance is built to direct possible blast forces from damaging the main building.

There is a 8600 sqm land belonging to this object, some forest.

Built in 1973 and build cost was 220 million SEK back then, a pretty large sum considering the inflation.

Price now is 150 000 SEK or best offer. If it was located in the town I live, I would have bought it yesterday... Smile