I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Posts: 415 Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
Assuming the idea worked, it would solve the hydrogen storage problem, since you could just carry a tank of water. The water would then be streamed off, radio zapped, and then burned in some kind of engine...which means you'd have to carry an equivalent amount of energy, or more, in terms of breaking water bonds by batteries to power your radio device. Which would be silly, since if you can carry enough energy to break down water just to build it back up again, you should just skip the water altogether and make a much more efficient electric car out of the contraption. Why make make an extra energy transformation and load on extra weight just because you want to cling to the ICE?
False alarm. Go back to the temple. This is not the Technomessiah, it's only another guy with a cardboard sign that actually just wants a beer.
I wonder what generating that much radio power would do to our communication systems.
Joined: Sep 13, 2006 Posts: 291 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
For cars this doesn't sound like it would do the job, but what about power stations next to the ocean?
It would be nice if the amount of power generated by burning seawater was enough to generate the radio frequencies needed plus a surplus. We could shield it against messing up with communications.
Well, it wouldn't help with a ton of other problems, but it might help the energy crunch issues.
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
Windmills wrote:
Assuming the idea worked, it would solve the hydrogen storage problem, since you could just carry a tank of water. The water would then be streamed off, radio zapped, and then burned in some kind of engine...which means you'd have to carry an equivalent amount of energy, or more, in terms of breaking water bonds by batteries to power your radio device. Which would be silly, since if you can carry enough energy to break down water just to build it back up again, you should just skip the water altogether and make a much more efficient electric car out of the contraption. Why make make an extra energy transformation and load on extra weight just because you want to cling to the ICE?
This is not about storing hydrogen as sea water. This is about a more efficient way to create hydrogen instead of natural gas or sending an electric current through water. Hydrogen powered vehicles should not be using ICE.
They have done zero research into this. This is interesting. I think he had stumbled upon the resonant frequency for H2O. I think this does zilch for PO despite the high temperatures he observed.
Joined: Aug 15, 2006 Posts: 282 Location: 'bout 15 miles from EU's eastern border (thankfully on the inside)
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
Hasn't this already been discussed in enough detail? I think the first edition of this story is where someone posted a cool youtube vid of microwaving grapes... so unless you can beat that, let the thread die with dignity
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2736 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
{topics merged by moderators}
Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
Quote:
An Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.
John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.
The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.
physorg _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4886 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
10-4 Eli. You are 10-2. We have already responded to several calls from that location. There's absolutely nothing to report. It's just another crank call. Expect more. Over. _________________ Got Dharma?
The latest on it has been that the founder of the Materials Sciences Laboratory at Penn State University, a holder of BS and MS degrees in Chemistry, visited Kanzius to view his set up.
The professor described it as a "staggering" discovery. Not staggering because of it's energy potential - Kanzius has admitted an EROEI of less than one - staggering because it is a wholly new phenomenon.
A materials scientist is heated up over the effect of John Kanzius' external radio-wave generator on salt water. "It is scientifically a staggeringly important discovery", said Rustum Roy, a leading authority on microwave applications on materials technology.
Roy was in Erie on Thursday to view experiments with the radio-wave generator at Industrial Sales and Manufacturing Inc., the Millcreek company that builds Kanzius' generator. In the experiments, a test tube of salt water creates a flame when bombarded by the generator.
It will certainly shape a lot of science, said Roy, who founded the Materials Science Laboratory at Pennsylvania State University. It will tell us a lot more about the structure of water than anything in 100 years. It's a big, big contribution to the science of water.
Roy, a Penn State professor emeritus, still teaches some classes there and oversees research. He has done studies on the structure of water. He is also a visiting professor of medicine at the University of Arizona and distinguished professor of materials at Arizona State University. He spends his winters in Arizona.
Kanzius said Roy was the first outside expert in water to view the demonstration. It was sink-or-swim time for the project, Kanzius said. Kanzius said he is pleased with the assessment, especially because there have been skeptics. To hear a world authority give such a rave review is phenomenal, he said. It's more than we ever expected to hear from him today. I expected him to hit me on the head with a sledgehammer and say, "Wake up!"
Kanzius, a Millcreek inventor and a former television and radio broadcaster and engineer, built the radio-wave generator in 2003 as a way of treating cancer. The cancer research, he said, is going fullspeed ahead.
He found the generator's effect on salt water by a fluke during a demonstration in the fall of 2006 and has been exploring its use as an alternative energy source since then.
Roy said the Kanzius' discovery has scientific value in itself and also has the potential to create an alternative energy source and perhaps even to benefit medicine beyond cancer.
Where its applications lead is hard to tell,ā€¯ said Roy. Science is not hard to tell. It's going to be a whole new growth tree of science of the radiation effects on water structure.
Roy said he isn't sure whether the generator's use would result in a net gain in energy since the generator itself is powered by energy.
It is certainly a new route for active research, he said.
Everyone on this thread has dismissed the Radio Wave/Salt Water thing as a non-energy source.
I'm not contesting that.
If it were an energy source, it would stand physics on it's head. But the effect IS previously unobserved and not understood. I just say this because it seems to be the knee-jerk reaction around here - "What? Not an energy source? Then it's not worth looking at!". The potential energy source comments from Kanzius and now Roy are merely informal and the question of EROEI has not been rigorously measured as yet. I wish they'd hurry up and do that since it is the natural thing to ask.
But this really is an interesting phenomenon apart from energy considerations. In the video, a fairly sizeable flame was rising off a test tube of salt water. The inventor insists it is a "flame", not a "plasma". Makes you wonder what other compunds would exhibit curious phenomena when bombarded with radio waves.
Anyway, here you have a newspaper reporting that a scientific world authority has looked at this and claimed that it indeed IS a "staggering" new phenomenon.
In another thread previous to the above one at Yahoo Groups, Kanzius had this to say:
Quote:
August 12 - The CBS News Network was in last week for the cancer procedure..They also taped some of the saltwater..We shall see what happens in the next few weeks. I have had the Motor Trend folks in and have the world's foremost authorities on water coming in soon.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2106 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
Wow!
..and as we approach peak for the materials that make up the frequency inspired hydrogen cars that subsequently abound across this globe, hey, no doubt someone will discover that brainwaves create steel and rubber. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
lys3rg0 wrote:
Hasn't this already been discussed in enough detail? I think the first edition of this story is where someone posted a cool youtube vid of microwaving grapes... so unless you can beat that, let the thread die with dignity
I microwaved a marshmallow once. It inflated to the size of a softball.
Maybe I should YouTube it _________________ Remember: 73.3% of statistics are made up
and the other 23.6% are wrong
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3528 Location: Oh really?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
It's just electrolysis again. There is allegedly a certain frequency and amplitude (I don't know the values) that maximizes process efficiency yielding higher amounts of hydrogen per input watt.
It still requires more energy in than you get out. This should be no surprise. _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 819 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
Though clearly not an energy source, this may allow wind to electric to radio freq conversion of hydrogen at a lower initial energy input than electrolysis
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Re: John Kanzius' Salt Water-Radio Wave Energy Source?
Ming wrote:
Quote:
By that logic, shouldn't we all be wondering about your (Ming's) credentials which allow you to supercede the credentials of Rustum Roy and deny his observations without having viewed the Kanzius apparatus up close yourself? Put your extensive CV online for us! Hop on a plane and go visit Kanzius yourself! Go find the trap door where the rabbit disappears!
You fail to understand the idea of presenting arguments and discussing them.
It is ok by me: Keep up your attempt to pump this hoax.
It appears Foxnews.com is now pumping this hoax as well...
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
