I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
lys3rg0 wrote:
Hasn't this already been discussed in enough detail? I think the first edition of this story is where someone posted a cool youtube vid of microwaving grapes... so unless you can beat that, let the thread die with dignity
Microwaving water to get Hydrogen will take more energy than using radio frequency tune to the resonant frequency of H2O.
MD, I agree with you. This is about efficiency.
Unless they stumble upon fission or fusion using radio frequency, this is not going to be a power source.
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: We are saved~! Radio frequency to the rescue.
nth wrote:
lys3rg0 wrote:
Hasn't this already been discussed in enough detail? I think the first edition of this story is where someone posted a cool youtube vid of microwaving grapes... so unless you can beat that, let the thread die with dignity
Microwaving water to get Hydrogen will take more energy than using radio frequency tune to the resonant frequency of H2O.
MD, I agree with you. This is about efficiency.
Unless they stumble upon fission or fusion using radio frequency, this is not going to be a power source.
Jeebus! I think I must have said about ten times that this is not an energy source!
Why the Fark do people keep on with that? Kanzius made a comment about his set-up being able to power a car once. But he has had to admit most recently that that is not possible.
What is ainteresting about this is that it is an entirely new phenomenon in physics. It's not electrolysis (as I've had to say several times already also) because there is no anode, no cathode (no polarity or direction of electron flow), no bubbles...
And what was curious about this set-up was the size of the flame rising off the testtube of saltwater - quite large! There was some discussion as to whethter or not the flame was a plasma. However, this could determined by anyone at all; you don't need advanced degrees in chemistry to figure that out. Yet, the founder of the Materials Sciences Lab at PSU, Rustum Roy, visited Kanzius, viewed his set-up and did not report any plasma phenomenon.
One immediately suspects some sort of magician's trick. Yet, a qualified set of eyeballs now has recently had a look at Kanzius set up and come away from it "staggered" by the effect. So, a curious-minded person would naturally be interested in knowing just what the hell is going on with this.
However, no matter how much I continue to post that this cannot possibly be an energy source, it seems like every farking subsequent post to mine points out that this cannot possibly be an energy source so it's obviously a hoax!
It's not an energy source. Ok?
It apparently is some sort of new phenomenon whereby water molecules can be split using radio frequencies. This is news!
The question arises as to efficiency compared to electrolysis - an entirely different process.
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water (Kanzius)
Thanks Mod for merging this.
Carlhole,
I actually did a search in PO.com before posting this, but could not find the old thread.(why not?) I did not know so much more information is available on this.
I am surprise that people here think this is a hoax. I doubted it was an energy source, but now reading the old thread confirms it. Like you, I am curious about the efficiency.
ERIE, Pa. (AP) - An Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.
John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.
The discovery has scientists excited by the prospect of using salt water, the most abundant resource on earth, as a fuel.
Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, has held demonstrations at his State College lab to confirm his own observations.
The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.
The discovery is "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years," Roy said.
"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Roy said. "Seeing it burn gives me the chills."
Roy will meet this week with officials from the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense to try to obtain research funding.
The scientists want to find out whether the energy output from the burning hydrogen—which reached a heat of more than 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit—would be enough to power a car or other heavy machinery.
"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Roy said. "The potential is huge."
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2736 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: Re: John Kanzius' Salt Water-Radio Wave Energy Source?
Mods, Would you please put Carhole as the author for this thread? He is the first poster here and he has put the most effort into searching for information on this topic. I'm sure he won't mind. _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: John Kanzius' Salt Water-Radio Wave Energy Source?
Mr. Kanzius may have solved half the problem- let's not be so quick to toss him overboard. Passive means of energy production (solar, wind, etc) have yet to be made economically efficient, we all know that. Now there is the opportunity (maybe) to pursue a better radio wave generator. Undersea current turbines generating electricity for a super efficient wave generator splitting hydrogen burned in a steam turbine ain't so far fetched. Plug your car in and away we go.
So, isn't anyone going to keep on trashing this phenomenon?
I need some sucker to argue with.
I wish to fu*k one of these reporters would ask the obvious energy in/energy out question! What's wrong with them? _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
So, isn't anyone going to keep on trashing this phenomenon?
I need some sucker to argue with.
I wish to fu*k one of these reporters would ask the obvious energy in/energy out question! What's wrong with them?
Most of the doomers just like to chime in to laugh everything off as fantasy. They do not care to really look into the science behind these claims. If it’s not currently saving the planet from every existing problem, then it must be a hoax in their minds.
Don’t argue with them about the science behind things because they usually realize that they don’t know what they are talking about so they wait for MQ to come along with regurgitated quotes and book references about overshoot.
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