For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11992 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: Why is negativity important to you?
Why is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?
I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "Fark you, you negative Fark heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.
So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?
Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 2611 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
In a way, this is like asking "why do you beat your spouse so hard"?
Actually it is a good topic to explore. My ex-wife was pretty negative about all the small things in life you have to deal with. However, she actually was pretty good when a real crisis hit.
Part of my job is to identify all the actual and potential things that can go wrong with a system. I'm very good at it, and it comes naturally to me. However, it really feels good to me when I can relax and see all the good things that do happen all the time. I think I like the contrast - like many things in life.
People that are negative all the time on everything, I just don't know how they survive. Maybe they get positive on negativity.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
I'm pretty positive in my day to day life, and a little like dinopello I spot problems before they happen in my work life, well mostly anyway.
I feel positive when I talk and play with my godson. I think he'll be ok really. He even said to me the other day that he didn't want to work. I tried to explain that he was free and that choice would have consiquences but if work seemed the worst possible thing in the world then he wouldn't have to do it. Like, he's only 6 so I'm sure he'll be working in the future. I remember being scared of work, right up until I was about 15 - 16.
I am very gloomy about the future but only when I'm thinking specifically about that. When I was young I was always trying to talk about topics rather than sport or gossip and the reaction I got was almost always negative. It wasn't me who was negative but rather the attitude to change that others have that was negative.
There are so many 'others' and so few 'us' that I always feel negative when pondering our future. However that doesn't mean I hate people, I love us and the amazing things we do.
I just wish people could think in more abstract or complex ways.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi I am very very very negative and pessimistic about the state of the world, humanity in general, and most individuals including myself. But not my partner of 27 years. I methodically ignore her faults and some of her strengths. I do believe in rational thought and have no patience for metaphysics but I act irrationally all the time. Go figure.
One thing I have noticed is that I am goal-oriented and impatient with myself and others. I am a depressed idealist. Is there a connection?
You on the other hand appear to be a compulsive optimist and seem to take it personally when other people either don't see (or don't want to see) the good in specific efforts and programs. You seem to believe that little steps help. I engage in little steps all the time, but I have little or no confidence they will make the slightest bit of difference. But I continue as an act of faith I guess. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1721 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi wrote:
Why is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?
I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "Fark you, you negative Fark heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.
So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?
Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.
I'ld hardly call it pessimism, rather a different perspective on the scope of the problem.
_________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 589 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Interesting topic, Ludi, and one that I'm glad you started
For me, negativity is knowing a future that most people do not know, or flat-out deny even if they really do "know." For me, being negative is being born 100 years too soon, and living in a world that I know to be totally unsustainable...a world of mixed-up value systems, ecological destruction and war that seems to know no end.
When I was a kid, I saw all the new stuff being built, and wondered how long this could go on. Until the whole country was paved over? I wondered how long the oil would last, I wondered how people would survive when there were too many people and too few jobs. When I was a kid, I looked ahead into the future and saw the US fighting endless wars over the black stuff we just had to have, for how could we continue our way of life without it??
And now, at the age of 40, I see all of these things coming true, and yes, it does make me negative, angry, depressed and all other kinds of emotions in between (look at some my earlier posts on here, and you can see what I mean...LOL). BUT, I do see the positive side of things, and I know there is reason to hope. Somewhere, somehow, somewhen, there will always be reason to hope that we will someday "get things right." And like I told a friend a long time ago, I will stop being depressed when the rest of the world goes into depression, and I still think this to be true, as I will finally be living in my own element.
Now, in this time, work ("a job") is the worst thing in the world (kudos to your godson, Grifter...he must have a bit of me in him...LOL), in the coming depression, work will probably be the best thing in the world, as I'll be doing things that I find to be extremely rewarding. So I spend my endless free time learning as much as I can about everything and getting ready for what I know is soon to come...and learning how to decouple myself from the materialistic world around me, and I do have to say that it's really starting to pay off, especially as more and more people realize the futility of being enslaved to "things" and "status".
Ludi, I just want to give a big serving of praise to you for doing what you feel is right, and being positive for the rest of us. Yeah, I know this must feel like hand-to-hand combat warfare sometimes, but like someone said over on the HousingBubbleBlog once, you gotta count your victories when you can, even if it's one person at a time. And yes, your cause is definitely one of inspiration to many. Whatever you may do, whatever may come of all this, please don't ever give up fighting the good fight (sheds a tear or two...)
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1142 Location: Last outpost of Civilisation
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi wrote:
Why is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?
I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "Fark you, you negative Fark heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.
So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?
Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.
Negativity is the current 'flavour of the month' amongst philosophers and academics, and is dribbling down through the rest of society piecemeal, under the term 'Deconstruction'. The term was first coined by Jacques Derrida, writing in the 1960's.
Derrida's Deconstruction is very hard to define - it is primararily a literary technique, but it has wider implications. It (arguably) iterprets that any arguement can be taken apart by examining internal inconsistancies of meaning.
Basically, it means that if you are a deconstructivist, you can dump on anything.
Matt Savinar's 'LATOC' thesis, for example, is basically a deconstruction of modern (Anglo-American) society, so is James Kunsler's various writings.
The only way you can argue with a deconstructivist is to deconstruct their own statements: 'I disagree with your thesis' is something you might remember from the 'I win' thread (grin). The only way you can win such a debate is to bind their hands and feet with rope, throw them into a deep lake, and wait until the bubbles stop.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3345 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi wrote:
I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "Fark you, you negative Fark heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.
Gee, you think so, Ludi? *giggle*
Ludi wrote:
So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?
I think you have to have one emotion to balance out another, opposite, emotion.
Did you ever watch M*A*S*H ? People would often wonder why the doctors did so many silly things in the middle of a horrible experience.
It was because they were trying to offset the horrors, and how it made them feel.
Ever heard someone say "Get it off your chest. It will make you feel better?"
Saying something, expressing a fear, usually does lessen the impact on one's pysche, and I think a great many people have fears that they are trying to conquer. And, lessening one's fears will make one feel loads better, and, yes, sometimes it does make the other person feel better for helping. (All those years in school to get that pyschiatrist license!! lol)
Generally, I think that it is a self-protecting reflex (of course, I could be wrong!)
Also, when one of the people in a discussion/arguement expresses their views, it should teach the other person more about them.
I can't, at this time, imagine anything wrong with expressing reasonable negative views. We all have them.
Nobody wants to hear just negative comments all the time, but, then, as noted above, nobody wants to hear sunshine being blown up their you-know-what all the time, either.
I have never met anyone for whom it was an intentional philosophy, so I don't know what to say about that.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11992 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Thanks for all the input!
Re: "compulsive optimist" yeah, that's a good call, pstarr. I have to work hard to be positive. It's easy for me to get overwhelmed by negativity and depression. Other people seem to revel in it, and that's what gets me down here sometimes. It's hard for me to see the benefit in deliberately being negative. You know I often post about how I think we're screwed and how I'm pretty sure I'm personally screwed, but yet, I guess I come off as an optimist, which is actually pretty funny to me! I just don't personally see the benefit in posting in every thread "we're screwed."
I realised somthing soon after posting this thread, that the anger I feel about the negativity here on the board is a reflex to avoid feeling despair. I push aside the despair with anger, which isn't healthy either.
Re: using "negativity" to spot problems/weaknesses in a plan. Both my husband and I do that a lot, he's especially very good at it. Though he doesn't seem like a negative person, he's very capable of spotting potential problems or accidents waiting to happen.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Why is positivity important to you? _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi wrote:
Already answered that question, Aaron.
It's a matter of survival. Why is survival important to me? Because it's important to my husband.
No I mean why do you assume your "positivity" equates with survival? _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6284 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
dinopello wrote:
In a way, this is like asking "why do you beat your spouse so hard"?
It really is. The thread title is a classic loaded question.
Let me re-phrase your question, Ludi, so that I can actually answer it: "Why are you so damned negative about so many things?"
Here's why. I've probably posted this piece of pornography fifteen times before, so sue me, but here it is again:
I'm sorry, Ludi, but we're not going to get away with this. This can't be mitigated. We shouldn't have done this. We've screwed the pooch.
It just doesn't matter what we do, we are not going to be able to counter the devastating effects of our runaway population explosion. The biosphere can't take what we're doing to it, and it's going to pretty much stop supporting us in the not too distant future.
It's really tough to be positive in the face of that reality. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2731 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
I was having some discussion with a co-worker and once I gave my read on it his response was, "Deeply cynical... probably right but cynical."
I would rather be right than either pessimistic or optimistic. This is not to say that I am always right only that I would prefer it. If I see a problem I point it out or avoid it. It I see an opportunity I seize it (and then point it out).
If I have a bad argument (i.e. my negativity is unfounded) either point it out and make me look like a fool or ignore me and let me make a fool out of myself. If you are confident in your optimism, there should be no reason to swear or throw the discussion into the HOF.
Negativity is of no value. Trying to see things as they are means everything. _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
