For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 975 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
I make my own bread using a Panasonic SD253 bread machine (it's dead good!)
This is economical (costs £0.40 per 400g loaf inc electricity) for top quality lovely fresh bread.
It is clear to me that with the prices of wheat skyrocketing bread flour will be going up in price soon - should I stockpile it? How long will it last? Is there anything I can do to extend the usability?
Note: I bought 1.5KG of strong wholemeal bread flour this morning - it has a "use by" date of Feb 2008.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 662 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
Whole wheat flour lasts much shorter duration compared to white flour due to oxidation of the oils. Your better bet is to get a mill to grind wheat. Unground wheat can last years.
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
Flour is simple carbohydrate--carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen--and should last forever if kept dry and cool. wheat berries are even better as they have a protective sheaf.
Wheat berries are alive and contain valuable nutrients like wheat germ, wheat oil etc. All you need to make flour is either a Vita-Mix brand blender (the old name?) or an inexpensive hand-crank metal burr mill to make whole wheat flour. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
julianj wrote:
It is clear to me that with the prices of wheat skyrocketing bread flour will be going up in price soon - should I stockpile it? How long will it last? Is there anything I can do to extend the usability?
I experimented with a bag by keeping it in the bag in a cool dry place for 14 months and then in a large airtight plastic container for another 12 with no problems. It still worked great in my bread machine and tasted fine.
With my experience, I'm leaning on the "good for a few years" side of the equation, especially if kept in one of those very large ziplock bags.
However, flour would have to threaten to rise to $15 /25 lb bag before I would consider stocking up on more than my current 75 lb limit. There is a cost/benifit side along with a "where the hell am I going to put all of this stuff" side. After all, and my wife would have to eat 2 slices of bread every meal to use 25 lb / month.
But wheat comes in multiple forms. I also store 20+ lb each of egg noodles, macaroni, spaghetti, and tortellini in air tight containers as well. Again, good for a few years.
I use a bread machine as well but really need to at least learn how to do it the manual way as I don't want to totally depend on a small electrical appliance.
IMHO though, if the price of wheat continues to climb, as I believe it must, it will only go so far before people start asking "WTF?" When that happens, I hope they aren't fed some lame story about greedy farmers or flour mill owners.
Until we start limiting our gasoline use, we're going to see much higher food prices. I would love to see the recreational vs transportation vs commuting consumption figures of gasoline in the US.
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
I can detect rancidity a mile a way. If you were storing white flour, then 12-14 months is not usually a problem. Whole wheat would not likely have that kind of shelf life.
Also, I am a bread machine snob. But if the machine brings you closer to homemade then let that be a transition to full, hands-on bread making. There is nothing like it. Go to the Planning for the Future forum and find the bread thread.
cynthia
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 830 Location: Tustin, CA
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
Wheat and flour are nice luxuries if you're set up for them and believe you'll have future access to them.
But you also have to store all the other things to make bread and noodles: yeast, butter, eggs, salt. Some of these will be easier to acquire and store than others. But just baked flour and water can get old real quick.
I myself am learning all I can about raising and storing varieties of Potatoes. They can be grown in almost every region of temperate climate, come in a large number of varieties, and are easily cooked or eaten raw.
They are easily grown, are full of vitamins and nutrition. And is probably the most food productive crop there is for a small amount of land. _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 975 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
Excellent replies, thank you very much - this is why I love PO.com!
@pretorian: that's the major benefit of a bread machine - it's sooo easy - tip the ingredients in and press a few buttons - a couple of minutes for straightforward breads, and maybe ten at most for more elaborate recipes: the labour costs are negligible.
Quote:
I experimented with a bag by keeping it in the bag in a cool dry place for 14 months and then in a large airtight plastic container for another 12 with no problems. It still worked great in my bread machine and tasted fine.
Experimental proof - good one jlw61; so we are looking at 2+ years at least. Seems like it's worth stockpiling some.
I will explore the idea of unground wheat.
Obviously I'd prefer to store whole wheat flour because of its nutrient qualities, but that has to be factored against the shorter shelf life; the normal bread I make is "50/50" or half wholemeal, half white flour - because it makes a lighter loaf.
Cynthia: thanks for your suggestions. After having so much fun with Bready the Bread Machine, I have been making bread and pizzas by hand, it is just that the convenience of the machine makes it so much easier, and I don't forsee the UK being completely out of electricity anytime soon (I do acknowledge the many supply problems it faces). If I can make bread, I don't worry too much about the supermarkets being virtually out of food (as they were in the 2001 Trucker's Blockade).
I monitored it and the bread machine actually used a tiny amount of electricity (6 pence worth). If the worst came to the worst I can raise the dough by hand and just bake it in my gas oven or the bread machine.
Actually the critical factor is the yeast, isn't it? I bought several packets (of dried bread machine yeast) because they were on "sale" when I first got the bread machine but I had to throw two out because they had aged and the bread wasn't good. Although I doubt there will be a "run" on yeast in the supermarket in a crisis, it might be an idea to stock up. Should I stick a tin in the freezer?
Incidentally, I accidentally bought "normal" non-bread machine dried yeast, and have been using it with 100% success in my bread machine by activating it as normal and it makes fab bread, despite saying on the instructions that cannot be used in bread machines.
@not-soSILENTTODD: All I need for bread is flour, yeast, salt, sugar and water, so I don't think I'll run short of them, it's partly being economical as bread flour hasn't gone up in price sharply, but I expect it will. If there's another interruption in food supplies as 2001 I'd like to be able to bake plenty and give some to my neigbours.
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 830 Location: Tustin, CA
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
julianj wrote:
@not-soSILENTTODD: All I need for bread is flour, yeast, salt, sugar and water, so I don't think I'll run short of them, it's partly being economical as bread flour hasn't gone up in price sharply, but I expect it will. If there's another interruption in food supplies as 2001 I'd like to be able to bake plenty and give some to my neigbours.
julian, as long as your yeast is good and holds out I would agree. It will not be very tasty bread, but it will do.
However refined sugar I hope is not something your counting on existing much past when the SHTF. In the 19th century refined sugar was very expensive. In 1900 the per capita consumption in the America was about 6 lbs per person/year (vs about 60 lbs/year today-why Americans are FAT!). No oil, No sugar, no more Hawaiian Sweet Bread!
If your yeast craps out, you have a recipe for crackers. This is better than starving, but I think I’ll stick to my Potatoes and Vegetables.
The only other critique I would make of this discussion is there seems to be a lot of reliance on “Bread Machines”. These require electricity which will disappear long before bags of wheat are no longer obtainable. I hope you are not relying on them to cook dinner for you! _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 975 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
Thanks for your reply SILENTTODD. I forgot about oil/butter as an ingredient, but what I said still stands.
I'm not as pessimistic as you.
I find it very hard to believe that the UK's combined electricity and gas supply would fail so badly that I couldn't bake bread by one method or another as long as I had the right ingredients.
You also hardly need any sugar, so it would be easy to stockpile, and honey is a substitute (I've made Roman Army bread with spelt flour, honey and olive oil - solid but tasty).
If the lecky and gas do fail, then there are solar panels, camping gas cookers, solar ovens, and I saw someone at Brixton Green Fair recently build a wood-fired oven out of straw, bricks and cook a pizza in it, so I'm not particularly worried.
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
SILENTTODD wrote:
I myself am learning all I can about raising and storing varieties of Potatoes. They can be grown in almost every region of temperate climate, come in a large number of varieties, and are easily cooked or eaten raw.
They are easily grown, are full of vitamins and nutrition. And is probably the most food productive crop there is for a small amount of land.
What about bugs? You never had any problems with them? Potatoes are not that easy to grow in my experience (without pesticides that is).
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2731 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Re: [Preparedness] How long can you keep bread flour for?
We have 700+ pounds of wheat berries to serve as a "bridge" in case of a sudden change in paradigm. We have a couple of goats and chickens for eggs. I think you could store a large amount of oil in addition to your flower.
I would second Ludi's call to make your own sourdough. Would we get a little tired of sourdough after a few months? yes, but it would be better than doing with out and we are "putting by" enough other kind of supplies that not adding "yeast" to that list would be a great benefit.
We also have potatoes (3-4 varietes) but since I am not currently able to grow enough to last a whole year I plant enough each year so the following season we could have enough to last a whole year and still be able to plant the year after that, _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
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