Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 633 Location: No man's land
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Why Ron Paul over Dennis Kucinich? Is Dennis too radical for you? Does he make you nervous because he actually understands the issues? Vegans must be losers... right?
What sets your green platform apart from the rest?
As president of the United States, I’m going to shift the entire direction of America. We need to see the connection between global warring and global warming, and it’s oil. Sustainability is the path to peace. And I’m the only true peace candidate in this election. So peace means being in harmony with nature. If you’re in harmony with nature, you don’t exploit nature. You don’t ruin the land, you don’t extract the oil, you don’t take the coal out of the earth.
My underlying philosophy is a green philosophy. It means that I’m looking at a total reorganization of the federal government to create a cooperative and synergistic relationship between all departments and administrations for the purpose of greening America.
What do you do to lighten your environmental footprint?
My philosophy of life extends to everything I am and do. If I say I’m for peace, I’m for peace in the kind of products that I use, in the kind of shoes that I wear, and in terms of the clothes that I wear, in terms of my eating habits. I’m always thinking in terms of sustainability. That’s the way I live. I live in a small house and we’re very conscious of our energy usage. I drive an American car, a Ford Focus, but it’s one of the highest fuel-economy cars.
I’ve been living an essentially vegan lifestyle since 1995, and that has led me to a condition of extraordinary health and clarity. Now, I’m not, as president, going to tell everyone what they have to eat, but I will share my own story about how the choices that I’ve made have meant, for myself, a better life, and a happier life. I’m 60 years old, but I’ll bet that I’m in better physical shape than a lot of people a lot younger.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
It may be interesting to see if all Moderators say no PO endorsement and the Experts all say yes.
or vice versa.
I don't see how that would matter. Expert status means little, as we all know, especially in the general population when it comes to one issue. Some are "experts" in some areas (or just one) but not in others.
No moderators have cast their vote, or at least publicly. As for the experts, Tanada and I vote no (despite my complete personal endorsement of Paul) while threadbear and seahorse have voted yes. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
We’re going to break up the monopolies in utilities, that’s No. 1. No. 2, these utilities are going to be closely regulated for their activities. No. 3, they’re going to be required to go green as license conditions. No. 4, they’re going to be closely monitored and shut down if they violate the Clean Air Act.
Wow. Good bye electricity. There's absolutely no way that we'd have any type of real economy or energy structure in the US with Kucinich in power.
He talks about paying US coal miners to not mine. That decreases supply while keeping demand constant. That forces prices up. And he also wants to phase out nuclear and NG. That would be a major squeeze on supply, and a massive increase in prices. Yet he thinks he'll be able to keep utilities from "dictating energy costs"? Of course, because he will have already pushed them through the roof, that is, of course, if you can get any electricity.
Quote:
Do you think Americans are ready to answer the call to conserve?
Of course they are, they’re just waiting for leadership
This fool thinks that Americans want to conserve. What!?!! And you wonder why we think he's nuts? Look out at the number of SUV's on the road. The number of people with thermostats at 65 in the summer and 75 in the winter. People who fly instead of taking the train and so forth. There is absolutely no desire for conservation in America outside of small pockets like PO'ers and greenies.
If Americans wanted to conserve, we wouldn't be fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to secure reserves. We wouldn't be putting up with $100 oil (almost). We would have ditched SUV's by now and put on a sweater. Instead, I still see lots of people mocking Carter for that appearance.
Quote:
We do not need to be held hostage by the utility industry.
We're being held hostage by our own greed when it comes to energy. We have no one to blame but ourselves for being suckered into a system that makes us think we own the world and there are infinite possibilities and that if we want something, we can have it, regardless of costs or damages to the future.
I have nothing against Kucinich personally. And I commend him for his work against the Patriot Act. He actually worked with Ron Paul on the Ben Franklin True Patriot Act which would require further review of the Patriot Act to determine if it is constitutional. Also for his veganinity and conservation, spreading of freedom and attacks against corruption and lack of action in America. Perhaps a VP position in Paul's administration, or a high level cabinet position. That is if Paul doesn't deal away with those positions.
But as a POTUS, I just don't see it as a possibility, nor would I care too much for it. But if it comes between him and anyone other than Paul, I'll vote for him. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3647 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Hate to dissillusion you but I have a better chance of being elected President than Dennis Kucinich. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 633 Location: No man's land
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
Tanada wrote:
Hate to dissillusion you but I have a better chance of being elected President than Dennis Kucinich.
I'm not asking who is more popular with the sheeple.
I'm asking which candidate is best qualified to address the issues discussed at Peakoil.com
We can all agree the we are f****d no matter who becomes the next Prez. This is all just hypothetical anyway. _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3647 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
billg wrote:
Quote:
Tanada wrote:
Hate to dissillusion you but I have a better chance of being elected President than Dennis Kucinich.
I'm not asking who is more popular with the sheeple.
I'm asking which candidate is best qualified to address the issues discussed at Peakoil.com
We can all agree the we are f****d no matter who becomes the next Prez. This is all just hypothetical anyway.
Well Hea Ain't It. As a matter of fact I don't think any of the current crop are it. In order to address the issues in a Representative Republic you have to be a solid effective public speaker. The only two Presidents I can remember doing that were Ronald Reagan and William J. Clinton, who were about as diametrically opposed as you could get. Both however were very popular because they both had the gift for making the audience feel important.
None of the current crop does that, neither Democrats nor Republicans. Gore comes closest, and he isn't running (yet). _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
This is all hypothetical ofcourse, but the main point is the complete unsuitability of Ron Paul as a Peak Oil candidate; which is essentially what this thread is about. Which of the candidates has the best strategy for dealing with Peak Oil assuming ofcourse that there is one in the first place. Atleast Kucinich has taken the step of acknowledging the magnitude of the problem; Ron Paul has not even given a hint that he is aware of it.
Endorsing Ron Paul is just saying that a large number of PeakOil.com posters, and some of the 'experts' are right wing liberatarians like Ron Paul; not that he is best suited to lead the US through Peak Oil.
And I am not arguing from a leftist position. I would be the first to endorse Roscoe Barlett if he were running. _________________ I play the cards I'm dealt, though I sometimes bluff.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
No.
Too many lunatics here. It would sully his name. Sorry guys, but the endorsement of the depressed hippies here isn't going to do anything for his campaign.
You could always have golem summon some kind of arcane magic symbol to bless his Path to Enlightenment or something.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
I'm just waiting for Roccman to complain and demand he be endorsed as well _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
Atleast Kucinich has taken the step of acknowledging the magnitude of the problem; Ron Paul has not even given a hint that he is aware of it.
Why does that matter? I would much rather have a candidate who knows nothing of PO but whose policies would affect it much better and mitigate it the most than a candidate who knows everything about it but would implement policies that would only exacerbate the problem by causing massive shortages even earlier.
With Kucinich, you get more of the same. Spending massive amounts of money on government programs that will waste tons of money and get little done. Electing Paul means the end of subsidizing oil with our military and economic bullying power and realizing the truth of the oil and energy situation through significantly higher energy prices which will force people to adopt alternative methods of transportation, food, employment and electricity. That will lead towards a free market solution which is far more efficient than any government imposed method.
Paul can "get" more done with much less knowledge than all of us put together with as much governmental power as possible. Of course, he'll do very little other than signing some decrees and orders and putting his signature on spending vetoes, but the effect will be to allow the people to make the right decisions based off of reality of high energy prices (that many poor nations are faced with today that don't have the military build-up to influence KSA to pump oil to them) and that will lead to a solution in the long term. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Joined: Jun 18, 2004 Posts: 765 Location: Western North Carolina
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
The posters who've voted no have made some nice arguments as to why we shouldn't. Things I hadn't considered.
One thing we should remember: IF Ron Paul does somehow get elected President of the United States (and doesn't get assasinated which I view as a probable outcome), Bush has done well to set up a unitary executive, with his executive orders, signing statements and the like. The next President will have an assortment of powers that were not available to past Presidents. Like it or not.
Paul, who in my opinion is opposed to the principle of the unitary executive (which makes me happy), could use some of those powers to make the necessary changes he is calling for. Particulary with regard to the FED and the IRS.
Maybe I'm an optimist after all. He's the only one on the slate that even begins to address the issues that are affecting this country. The rest are a bunch of corporate whores who wish to continue the status quo with minor tweaks IMO. They can go to hell for all I care.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Yes I have heard Paul speak at length about energy depletion and how we as a nation can handle that. Its almost impossible to hear a speech of his without him talking about the devastating effects of global warming. Its like that is all he talks about. Really he is truly in touch with what is happening in the big picture.
What I love most is that he thinks the EPA is feckless and disposable, believes all public lands should be privately owned, and whose remedy for an ailing planet is "a free-market system". Now that is the right man for the right time!!
Here's some more...
He wants to yank all subsidies and R&D funding from the energy sector, which many believe would benefit the growth of renewables. His libertarian presidency would, among other things, allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and boost the use of coal. Moreover, it wouldn't do diddly about global warming because, Paul reasons, "we're not going to be very good at regulating the weather."
Wow- how could you not endorse this man? He is so obviously in tune with the things we talk about here?
But again- if we can also endorse Zappa- I'm all in!!
Joined: Jun 18, 2004 Posts: 765 Location: Western North Carolina
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Good points Thuja.
But, if you think any of the other candidates are going to do anything different than what we are currently doing, I think you are sadly mistaken.
Besides, we PO'ers know that PO will solve the problem of excess carbon emissions, eventually. Once everything is burnt.
Even if the US did work to curb its emissions, who here believes that the rest of the world would do the same. I think we'd see Jeavons' paradox coming to fruition.
To be honest, I'd rather have Paul, who's message is a return to constitutional fundamentals and personal liberty in this country, and ending the worldwide US military presence, rather than the current path toward a police state/nanny state where every decision about how we live our lives is made by a government agency, be that local, regional, or federal. Where regular citizens are subject to routine surveillance. Guilty till proven innocent is the new American way.
More government regulation is not the answer. At least Paul is clued into the current Fark being wrought by the FED with congress' tacit approval.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
Dennis Kucinich is a US Congressman, and is currently trying to fill the Democratic ticket for president of the United States. He was in the middle of a debate recently when Tim Russert, debate moderator, asked him with previous knowledge if he had ever seen a UFO.
Great. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
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