Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
Ludi wrote:
Why keep posting about how doomed we are and how hopeless it all is? Is it that much fun for you?
We aren't doomed and it isn't hopeless. We just need to accept some facts and make some hard choices. I envision a future of quality and not quanity.
The move back to sustainability will be good for us. You know the potential of permaculture living.
Not everyone will able to partake of it, though. In our insistence to breed without restraint, we squandered the opportunity to have a small healthy population, relatively free of disease and suffering with a high quality of life—almost forever. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
If you actually look, theres' hardly anyone on here who believes they will be one who will cop it.
We're all hard wired to compete, and when it comes to it, do anything to survive.
Thats' why war is guarenteed _________________ "One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand."
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
I don’t really feel doomed or hopeless. People who mistaken our wasteful and ignorant way of life as the only way to live are more likely to feel doomed and hopeless. To some of us, PO is also an opportunity to bring back the simpler way of life and reestablish a balance between man and nature. I think we can manage the transition if we learn to live on less and not trying to grab what we can at other people's expense. _________________ UFO pilot: "Captain, our calculation shows planet earth won’t survive another 50 years at this rate of consumption. Why have the humans not noticed this?" UFO Captain: "They can only see one quarter ahead of time." -JVancouver
Joined: Mar 04, 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
... because the good things in life - love, friendship, fishing, beer, wine, fresh apples, fishing, etc. - don't depend on oil supply. It's going to get ugly, but those things give me reason to carry on.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3401 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
POAlex wrote:
They've been told the Bible is not important.
Quote:
They've been told to eat and be merry for tomorrow they die.
Uh, that's a conflation of passages from Ecclesiastes and Isaiah. link
Quote:
They've been told mother earth is more important than their eternal soul.
God will hold you in greater esteem for trying to take care of the Earth you're living on, which is part of the solution to the crisis we face. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Could you slide your shorts down please?
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
TheDude wrote:
God will hold you in greater esteem for trying to take care of the Earth you're living on, which is part of the solution to the crisis we face.
You're right, I did misquote the passage and I apologize. Here is what it says.
"And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?" (Luke 12:19-20)
Now, in regards to what you said up there. Let's look at what the Bible says.
Here are the words of Jesus.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36)
Each person has an eternal soul and it is more valuable than the entire world. The problem is all of us are sinful and need to be saved through the gift God offers us in Jesus Christ. The world on the other hand does not because it is cursed and dying because of sin.
God cares about the salvation of eternal souls through His Son moreso than the world. Why? Souls are eternal, the planet is not.
Now does this mean we should be good stewarts, absolutely. What it doesn't mean is that we should value the planet more than the human soul. Think about it, there are people actually advocating the genocide of 5.5B people to "save the planet". There's nothing to save because here's what's coming.
The Bible says God will judge and destroy this world to make way for one that is eternal and uncorrupted. There will be no sin, death, sorrow, crying or pain.
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10)
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4)
So to sum it up, we live on a sinking ship and Jesus Christ is the only lifeboat.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3401 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
My hope is that Christians (and members of other sects for that matter) fervently take up the task of maintaining "advanced" civilization, by which I mean simply societies who don't condone the activities of men like Vlad or Basil II, who committed unspeakable atrocities in the defense of their faith. To be sure secular rulers have committed similar evils; we should attempt to cure society of this need for sanguinary deeds in general if possible, which prosperity seems as sure a fix as any that have been implemented.
To place your faith in an inevitable destruction and attendant metaphysical salvation won't cut it for most of us; and why not try to salvage this world to better prepare for one beyond? What nobler task could you take up?
I wouldn't judge the ethics of those involved in trying to stabilize society by what you read here about enforced population reduction. Read Richard Heinberg's books for a more balanced assessment and path for simplifying or powering down.
Thanks for that link, Ludi. More people should be aware of the Bible's respect for creation. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Could you slide your shorts down please?
Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 259 Location: Eastern Washington
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
Quote:
Among other things, it occurred to me that by that reasoning I should become a fascist dictator.
I'm equally scared of this president/administraion (you slipped that in very well). I've given up by buying some land, finding a wellpaying job, and following the path a boatman.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
I almost feel like giving up after reading some of the (wonderful) truth here.
This is why people like me like this forum, it gives us hope through that ugly truth since we are actually collaborating about it.
We should be at WAR with energy deprivation...
We need to recognize and defeat the many appendages. They include outdated laws, retro enviro's and it seems, an organized lack of awareness.
We need to turn our wasted dollars into a massive Renewable Energy Infrastructure! We have no other choice!
We must carry on the dream, the excitement, the spirit of what we were raised on, to enjoy life, nature, (and yes, our childrens future). RE is just now starting to prove itself as a utility scale medium!
Thus the reason for my optimism yet post oil crisis is the reason for my urgency
Joined: Nov 28, 2004 Posts: 12475 Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
Shannymara wrote:
I was phobic (literally) of tornadoes from the time I was a little girl. So later on I became a tornado chaser and got a meteorology degree.
That's interesting, Shanny. Because of my deafness, I had a phobia of public speaking. So I wound up as a teacher. It wasn't easy. Getting through a phobia is never easy. Now of course I also have acrophobia, but at my age I'm not about to go climbing Yosemite. Sometimes you just have to let your phobias lie dormant. _________________ Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
Joined: Nov 03, 2007 Posts: 195 Location: cascadia
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Why not just give up?
pstarr wrote:
This doomer crap is the best. It is like a comic book or science fiction movie. We (maybe just some of us) are programmed to enjoy catastrophe. Have you ever wondered why lots of people rubberneck at car accidents? The same reason people watch the news. I am not a sadist and I don't like killing but I do like excitement.
Have you spent much time in the woods? Jays, crows, chickadees, and squirrels seem to enjoy chaos. They arrive at noise and make noise themselves.
Oh I'm so on the same page. I always wondered why those animals spoke to me...
The thing that makes it depressing is that it is taking so long for the bottom to fall out of this fantasy. It's like Wiley E. Coyote running off the cliff, but he doesn't fall until he looks down. The sheep are too busy watching American Idol to notice their financial and ecological foundations have been destroyed, but they are beginning to wake up.
As for the OP, I think the reason I have not given up is because I actually think my life will be dramatically better post-peak. I have just about had it with the so-called technological wonders of modern society and will be very happy to see much of it go away.
I am especially looking forward to the thunderous silence of vehicle after vehicle sitting, rusting, to make no sound ever again. Ah, I almost get giddy just thinking about the beautiful silences to come in the near future...
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